s30v at 65.6rc - Who wants to give it a try?

Edge of Glass?

I don't think so.

This PA S30V 65.5+rc blade didn't died after this:

5TDbdRK.jpg


Testing edge geometry targeted for kitchen uses... of course, it must supports incidental bones/hard-materials contact. Since foofie has this knife, I used s110v instead:

S110V, 66rc via HT 2.5
Sharpened: ~14-15dps, 0.005" behind edge thick

 
I respectfully say I won't ask to borrow it but I am curious how it would compare to a ZDP-189 up around 65?

I bang my head in consternation every time I see how far down the list ZDP is from S30V in the Ankerson tests. Must be those Vanadium carbide teeth in the S30V.

Thanks for the opportunity and posting this.

My motto used to be the harder the better (I have yet to get any sort of blade that is too hard; usually they are much softer than I want). Some have enlightened me about micro cracking buuuuuuuuut . . . good and hard and micro cracking is better than most of the shlock that is out there commercially. There are exceptions.
 
The thing I'm really curious about is at that hardness the razor edge holding of S30V. That's the aspect I detest it for, it can't hold a razor edge for a crap. I've taken more than one S30V knife to cardboard and after like 6 cuts the razor edge is gone.
 
Great idea. I've been watching Bluntcut's thread from the start & a passaround never occurred to me. I'm not up for it but I'm eager to hear the feedback on it & any of of his other projects that may get passed around.
 
Good idea in theory, but my experience with S30V is that it's prone to chipping although I'm not sure if that's a characteristic of the alloy or the heat treat.
That's why I'm here. ;)
 
I used to own a handful of Spyderco knives in zdp189 - only DF remains. IME these edges are more durable at highly refined 20+dps. Longest edge retention was on a Stretch CF with convex to around 25dps apex. So zdp was probably in disadvantage vs s30v in Ankerson's test. S90V results also of reflect sharpening disparity in his test settings.

A fun scenario/hypothetical/pull-out-of-thin-air: BCMW S30V 65.5rc 2K diamond 15dps vs X brand zdp189 5+k diamond or ceramic 20dps in rope cutting, judge by apex width after 600 cuts of 5/8" dia manila rope:

Spyderco zdp 65rc: I think, matrix strength & durability play a big role here, so bcmw s30v has the advantage.
Rockstead zdp 67rc: a draw slices. s30v when push cut (using less than 1" edge length).

Most knife people associate 'high hardness' as brittle which mostly true because high hrc via std ht due to high stress/dislocation (matrix with high potential energy). I claimed (certainly isn't metallurgically verified/proven) high hrc via bcmw ht 2.5 based on displacement resistance of highly compact/cohesive matrix. Obviously, the higher stress-loaded matrix has lower load capacity, thus reach fracture/fail sooner.

Wowbagger said:
I respectfully say I won't ask to borrow it but I am curious how it would compare to a ZDP-189 up around 65?

I bang my head in consternation every time I see how far down the list ZDP is from S30V in the Ankerson tests. Must be those Vanadium carbide teeth in the S30V.

Thanks for the opportunity and posting this.

My motto used to be the harder the better (I have yet to get any sort of blade that is too hard; usually they are much softer than I want). Some have enlightened me about micro cracking buuuuuuuuut . . . good and hard and micro cracking is better than most of the shlock that is out there commercially. There are exceptions.
Click to expand...

I only own 2 production and made total around 4 s30v knives. S30V was at near bottom of my list (right next to zfinit & 14c28n and slightly below s35vn) based on my requirement of edge stability above 62rc. My ht 2.5 changed this for s30v (didn't test again for s35vn & 14c28n yet but zfinit is sitting a bottom because of it 60rc peak hrc). I didn't test this s30v at razor edge - assuming apex width is sub 400nm - against cardboard, iirc only micro bevel with dmt EE to decent shaving edge. I recalled it did well. Yeah, more tests are needed before I can confidently state - ht 2.5 s30v will hold razor edge almost at aebl level :)

dkb45 said:
The thing I'm really curious about is at that hardness the razor edge holding of S30V. That's the aspect I detest it for, it can't hold a razor edge for a crap. I've taken more than one S30V knife to cardboard and after like 6 cuts the razor edge is gone.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:. So do I - esp on s30v, since my tests/exp are limited.

flatface77 said:
Great idea. I've been watching Bluntcut's thread from the start & a passaround never occurred to me. I'm not up for it but I'm eager to hear the feedback on it & any of of his other projects that may get passed around.
Click to expand...

I used to think s30v has lousy composition but now changed to more on ht. Seem - s35vn has better looking composition. when time permits, I will pit ht 2.5 65.5+rc s30v vs s35vn vs n690 vs niolox.
Barman1 said:
Good idea in theory, but my experience with S30V is that it's prone to chipping although I'm not sure if that's a characteristic of the alloy or the heat treat.
That's why I'm here. ;)
Click to expand...
 
Yes - I too like harder s30v but not more chippy. That sounds about perfect. In my limited playing around with this knife, it seems to offer that.
It seems too that a lot of people have had many bad experiences with s30v. Perhaps a future passaround knife should be with a more well accepted or popular steel - XHP? niolox?
 
dkb45 said:
The thing I'm really curious about is at that hardness the razor edge holding of S30V. That's the aspect I detest it for, it can't hold a razor edge for a crap. I've taken more than one S30V knife to cardboard and after like 6 cuts the razor edge is gone.
Click to expand...

This is why God made M4 . . . she was tired of just this very thing.
 
bluntcut said:
I used to own a handful of Spyderco knives in zdp189 - only DF remains. IME these edges are more durable at highly refined 20+dps. Longest edge retention was on a Stretch CF with convex to around 25dps apex. So zdp was probably in disadvantage vs s30v in Ankerson's test. S90V results also of reflect sharpening disparity in his test settings.

A fun scenario/hypothetical/pull-out-of-thin-air: BCMW S30V 65.5rc 2K diamond 15dps vs X brand zdp189 5+k diamond or ceramic 20dps in rope cutting, judge by apex width after 600 cuts of 5/8" dia manila rope:

Spyderco zdp 65rc: I think, matrix strength & durability play a big role here, so bcmw s30v has the advantage.
Rockstead zdp 67rc: a draw slices. s30v when push cut (using less than 1" edge length).

Most knife people associate 'high hardness' as brittle which mostly true because high hrc via std ht due to high stress/dislocation (matrix with high potential energy). I claimed (certainly isn't metallurgically verified/proven) high hrc via bcmw ht 2.5 based on displacement resistance of highly compact/cohesive matrix. Obviously, the higher stress-loaded matrix has lower load capacity, thus reach fracture/fail sooner.



I only own 2 production and made total around 4 s30v knives. S30V was at near bottom of my list (right next to zfinit & 14c28n and slightly below s35vn) based on my requirement of edge stability above 62rc. My ht 2.5 changed this for s30v (didn't test again for s35vn & 14c28n yet but zfinit is sitting a bottom because of it 60rc peak hrc). I didn't test this s30v at razor edge - assuming apex width is sub 400nm - against cardboard, iirc only micro bevel with dmt EE to decent shaving edge. I recalled it did well. Yeah, more tests are needed before I can confidently state - ht 2.5 s30v will hold razor edge almost at aebl level :)



:thumbsup:. So do I - esp on s30v, since my tests/exp are limited.



I used to think s30v has lousy composition but now changed to more on ht. Seem - s35vn has better looking composition. when time permits, I will pit ht 2.5 65.5+rc s30v vs s35vn vs n690 vs niolox.
Click to expand...

Thank you ! That helped me understand.
Yes I had to learn not to ever cut wire ties with my ZDP. Now we are friends.
 
foofie said:
Yes - I too like harder s30v but not more chippy. That sounds about perfect. In my limited playing around with this knife, it seems to offer that.
It seems too that a lot of people have had many bad experiences with s30v. Perhaps a future passaround knife should be with a more well accepted or popular steel - XHP? niolox?
Click to expand...
Yes but where would the magic be in that ?

The whole point is the S30V should not be performing well but due to the 2.5 heat treat it may be advanced to another level.
 
Very interesting.

It would probably be fine as long as you are reasonably careful.
 
:thumbsup:

A tool must operates as designed. This petty should/must functions and has stability as well or better than a high end petty in stainless steels(vg10/elmax/m390/etc) at 60-62rc. Wear resistant should be higher due to its 65.5+rc.

In a quick maker test - edge of this petty was fine after made several contact with dried bone.

Wowbagger said:
...
The whole point is the S30V should not be performing well but due to the 2.5 heat treat it may be advanced to another level.
Click to expand...

PA members - if it is possible, please pretend this petty is a 60rc in vg10/elmax and use according, or better yet - conduct a blind (stainless steel & hrc) test. Yup, use/test it with confidence - success &| failure data are more useful and informative for all.

I rank S30V composition below average because in hardened state, it has ~17% carbide volume close to m390 18%. Which mean s30v ~6% CV in form of VxCy (x: 4 or 8, y: 3 or 7) and rest cv has majority of Cr23C6 and balance Cr7C3. I will splice together(from a couple published sources) a chart of cv (annealed/max%, near liquidus/min%, avg%) in my CWF thread.
 
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