S30V edge retention vs 440V

M

Mokk

Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
19
In 2003 wet dream of every spyderco fan became true,several models were upgraded from 440v to s30v. But it seems to me that with all the excitement no one even thought that the main reason for that could be that s30v much cheaper then 440v. True, it can be hardened to higher RC, its easier to sharpen, but what about wear resistance, corrosion resistance and mostly important edge retention ? Did anyone tested this ? It should be easy becouse there are several knifes with same blade geometry such as native and military , that are made both in s30v and 440v.
 
I dont claim that 440v better then s30v, its just i wanna know if anyone actualy compared this steels ?
 
Without even testing it it's obvious that the 440V ( NOW RENAMED S60V) will maintain an edge better because it has 2 1/2 %carbon vs the 1.25% carbon of the S30V. It will also be harder to sharpen and more brittle. The S30V is a very nice blade steel , I'll stick to that .
 
Most people dont use their EDC for choping trees, so i think that most important properties of steel is edge retention, all the fuss around s30v looks to me like result of good advertisement. Could it be that its just made for companies easier to explain why they switch to cheaper steel ?
 
As far as I know, S30V is the first steel made made primarily for cutlery. This issue has been beaten to death in this forum. CRK went to S30V so to me that says a lot.
 
The problem with 440V is that it has so much carbon and alloying elements in it that it can get a bit brittle if hardened up near its full potential. In order to make sure that they didn't have edges that chipped (specially serrated edges?) Spyderco lowered their hardness for 440V down to something like 56 RC. This is subject to rolling if you have a thin edge and hit something hard. I had my 440V edge roll while cutting heads off some rabbits. It is a much better design point to have S30V at 59 RC or so.
 
Originally posted by Scott Dog
As far as I know, S30V is the first steel made made primarily for cutlery. This issue has been beaten to death in this forum. CRK went to S30V so to me that says a lot.
Click to expand...

Side note: I believe that VG-10 is also a pure cutlery steel.

Hell, Chris Reeve was the primary consultant in assisting Crucible to formulate S30V. All of Crucible's other PM steels were formulated for other things, though some have been adapted to cutlery uses with varying degrees of success. It is perhaps the growing cutlery market for CPM steels that made it worth the trouble for Crucible to develop and formulate an optimal cutlery steel.
 
I think that for the reasons mentioned, S30V makes for a more verstatile steel. I've been happy with all of the S30V blades i have owned. I cannot say about 440V. Some of that stuff was a pain to sharpen! :mad: I would like to note that Sanvik 12C27 was another steel developed for cutlery.
 
My Gunting with a polished 30 deg included CPM440V blade is sharper than my factory edge delica in VG10. that's saying a lot for CPM440V because that delica was the sharpest knife I had. CPM440V takes a sharp but toothy edge as well. I guess the toughnes/chipping won't really matter on a 3 inch blade which will not see any chopping?
 
I think Sal said in a thread on the Spyderco forum that S30V had 30% better wear characteristics than 440V. This means it will hold an edge longer during abrasive cutting (ie, dirty cardboard, carpet, sandpaper, etc.). And since it's hardened to a higher RC than 440V, the edge will be less likely to roll. Those are 2 of the 3 ways a knife becomes dull, the other being chipping. I don't know how it compares to 440V in terms of chip resistance.
 
I asked Sal directly several weeks ago - does S30 cutting better then S60 and he directly sad yes! And there is Nitrogen in S30 (0.2% according to Sal) which improves steel quality over S60 (which does not have any) even with smaller Carbon contents.
Nitrogen is used in INFI, X15TN and H1 too.

Also on BAKCA show yhis year I heart from one of the famous bladesmith that S30 best cutting steel for today - better then damascus etc.

However I like to see Cliff Stamp opinion on this steel.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I am currently using a S30V Military, I should have some edge retention work one in a week or so. S90V is a very high alloy stainless steel, more Vanadiam then S60V and much harder to work.

-Cliff
 
2 Cliff Stamp
Great! Looking forward to see your review. Comparison with S60 will be especially interesting.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
All i can say by now (three or four weeks of using) is: S30V takes a sharp edge and it is tough. It is a great slicer but not great for pushing cuts. Maybe my blade is ht a bit soft, but not brittle. Realigning is easy. But i have to do it once to twice a week. Is that much? Think so. But better tough than brittle.

We are just talking about stainless or fairly stainless steels!?

Is it cheaper? Great!
 
There should not be a problem with hardness with S30V, which knife are you using? As for push cuts, that is more influenced by choice of sharpening grit than steel. S30V at a high polish should push cut very well, assuiming the knife is ground thin.

-Cliff
 
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