S30V Native question

afultz075

afultz075

Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
486
I just bought a Native from Wal-Mart in S30V. This marks my first knife in "super steel". I'm just wondering what the normal edge retention is on these? It came shaving sharp out of the box and I could shave patches on hair off my arm with it. After two days of use, I used it to open a few packages, cut a little bit of sheets of bubble wrap, cut a cardboard box into pieces, and cut two of three cable ties. Already I notice it's lost a good bit of it's shaving sharpness, it will still cut hair off my arm, but cutting off patches is now difficult. Is it normal for a knife in S30V to lose it's initial sharpness this quickly or did I get one with a bad heat treat? It's still sharp, don't get me wrong, i'm just not sure what to expect about it's edge retention.
 
I don't think ANY steel is ...much... different from others. I've got a BUNCH of different steel knives and they all need sharpening much sooner than I would expect. A few cuts of ANYTHING and they need a touchup.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

:confused:
 
I have a Native and I don't see a really noticeable difference in edge retention compared to my better knives (Benchmades, CRKT's, Kershaws, ect.), although it is a good bit harder to sharpen, it does last a little bit longer, but not a whole lot.
 
In my experience shaving edges disappear rather quickly with all knives regardless of use or edge geometry. The difference is how long they retain a working edge compared to other steels. I have my S30V Native in front of me at the computer desk (A long w/my brand new tan Camp Tramp :D ) and it holds it's edge very well IMHO.
 
Yes, this knife is holding a working edge wonderfully, i was just wondering about the shaving edge retention. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE everything about this knife, and it's a world of difference whenever you are used to using 400 series steels.
 
afultz075 said:
I just bought a Native from Wal-Mart in S30V. This marks my first knife in "super steel". I'm just wondering what the normal edge retention is on these? It came shaving sharp out of the box and I could shave patches on hair off my arm with it. After two days of use, I used it to open a few packages, cut a little bit of sheets of bubble wrap, cut a cardboard box into pieces, and cut two of three cable ties. Already I notice it's lost a good bit of it's shaving sharpness, it will still cut hair off my arm, but cutting off patches is now difficult. Is it normal for a knife in S30V to lose it's initial sharpness this quickly or did I get one with a bad heat treat? It's still sharp, don't get me wrong, i'm just not sure what to expect about it's edge retention.
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I've been unimpressed with the "super" steels, includng my S30V native and Buck Strider ATS 34. Its harder to get them shaving sharp, but they don't retain a edge much longer than my 440A Leek. An the leek I can get sharp pretty easy.

The only steel I've seen retain an edge for any length of time longer than the Leek is a Benchmade Grip in D2 tool steel. Thinking about getting another D2 knife.
 
If I recall correctly, a knifemaker once said that s30v is somewhat like d2 in that it holds a working edge for a long time but doesnt stay razor sharp for sh*t.

That is my experience with s30v too.
 
Part of your issue may be the "factory edge" problem. Often the edge put on the factory is created rather quickly and then stropped or buffed to improve the out-of-the-box performance. Sometimes some of the initial sharpness is due to stropping or buffing some weak edge material into alignment with the edge. This weak material is thin and shaves well, but it doesn't hold its edge as well as normal. Another common problem with factory edges is that they are put on in a hurry with the removal of minimal material. The machining process that shaped the blade can leave some weakened material where the edge is going to be finished. If a minimal honing job is used to create the edge you can end up with some of this weakened material in the factory edge.

The mechanisms for the factory edge problem may not be exactly right, but people have noticed factory edges that dull unusually fast. If you rehone the edge you may find that it holds its edge longer subsequently. If you don't have a honing system of your own try going to a knife shop and see if they have a demo Spyderco Sharpmaker unit that you could try.
 
For my two cents; hair poppin' sharp lasts less time than shaving sharp, which lasts less time than a working edge.

You cut some things that wear an edge quickly (cardboard, zip-ties, possibly glass-reinforced tape on the packages), so it is probably normal.

You really need to give a blade more time and use to determine if it is defective.

But, I'm willing to bet you'll be like me and end up "freshening" the edge often to keep a shaving sharp or better blade.
 
Jeff Clark said:
Part of your issue may be the "factory edge" problem. Often the edge put on the factory is created rather quickly and then stropped or buffed to improve the out-of-the-box performance. Sometimes some of the initial sharpness is due to stropping or buffing some weak edge material into alignment with the edge. This weak material is thin and shaves well, but it doesn't hold its edge as well as normal. Another common problem with factory edges is that they are put on in a hurry with the removal of minimal material. The machining process that shaped the blade can leave some weakened material where the edge is going to be finished. If a minimal honing job is used to create the edge you can end up with some of this weakened material in the factory edge.

The mechanisms for the factory edge problem may not be exactly right, but people have noticed factory edges that dull unusually fast. If you rehone the edge you may find that it holds its edge longer subsequently. If you don't have a honing system of your own try going to a knife shop and see if they have a demo Spyderco Sharpmaker unit that you could try.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was going to say. I always hone the bur edge on factory knives with a ceramic carbide stone to perfect the edge.
F.Y.I. I usually freehand 100 strokes (50 per side) check the edge and then 100 more if needed. I repeat until I get a razor edge. Sharpening takes patience and ceramic or diamond (ultra fine) sharpener. I laugh at people when they say I can't get an edge on S30V and I ask "How do you sharpen?" and they say " 6 strokes on my sharpmaker" (or even worse an Arkansas stone) I tell them try about 50 more on the sharpmaker and through away the wetstone if you plan on owning S30V.
 
How long does the razor edge last on a straight razor? They need even more care than a folder. :)

Jeff is right, a factory edge can generally be improved by sharpening the knife yourself when you get it, cleaning off the burr they may have left, too. You might even want to change the edge angle, depending on your projected use of the knife.

A shaving sharp edge is not real helpful when it's cord and cardboard you need to cut regularly. A toothier edge will do that job better.
 
I've done rope cutting tests with Spyderco knives and other makes using the factory edge and then resharpened them. After the resharpen the first time I typically see marked improvment in cutting performance and usually but not always on the second and third sharpening you can even see better performance still. I've noticed this in particular with my Japanese carving knives used for wood cutting and shaping.

Reasons for this are talked about in literature both here and on papers that come with high quality Japanese carving knives. Once you take the edge down a bit and remove that initial edge you get to stronger parts of the steel that are less brittle than that that was thinner and thus more affected by the heat treat oven high temp.

I would suggest when you resharpen that you put a micro bevel on the edge to increase the strength of it even more.

STR
 
STR said:
I would suggest when you resharpen that you put a micro bevel on the edge to increase the strength of it even more.
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I've read the term "micor bevel" several times on the forums. Logically I know what it means but can someone please explain how to actually do it? I use a Spyderco Sharpmaker and have a few of my more expensive knives sharpened to 30 degrees total angle.

Thank you very much.
 
Since you have a 30 degree secondary bevel already, touch that up with a slight 40 degree run with the white rods.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Since you have a 30 degree secondary bevel already, touch that up with a slight 40 degree run with the white rods.
Click to expand...

So I'm clear, if you call the 30 degree bevel the "secondary bevel", what is the primary bevel? The larger section I seen honed off (sharpened) at the factory that is usually about 1/32 - 1/16 or so wide?

Thanks again
 
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