S30V sharpening gives me a double barrel case of the redass, need advice

E

evosbu1

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I have a Manix XL

I use these two things to finish the edge. I begin sharpening with an India stone at 380 grit.

A "surgical black" Arkansas stone: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Hard-Arkansas-Whetstone-Sharpener/dp/B003WWWAI8/ref=cm_cr-mr-title

A Gatco ceramic rod: http://www.amazon.com/Gatco-60016-T...&qid=1416191535&sr=8-6&keywords=gatco+ceramic

First of all the S30V readily sharpens on the India stone in no time, as fast as 154-cm.

The Arkansas stone does not even phase the S30v. I can spend 30 minutes going back and forth and get nothing from it. I can spend 30 minutes on the ceramic and get the edge sharp enough to just barely shave hair. By comparison, 15-20 passes in a few minutes on each side of my Benchmade 154-cm with the ceramic rod gets an edge that effortlessly shaves hair and slices telephone paper, razor as far as my uneducated opinion goes. The Arkansas gets 8cr13mov equally sharp in just a few minutes.

After wasting time on the Arkansas I just put the S30V back on the India before switching to the ceramic. I was worried that doing so much sharpening for so long on the S30V with the ceramic and Arkansas over stressed the steel. So after doing the ceramic I cut directly and forcefully into some dead and thus very hard oak wood and the edge just crumbles into nothing. Is that what that means?

I ordered a 60 dollar 1300 grit DMT diamond stone and am hoping this will do the job on the S30V. All I want is for the S30V to get as sharp as quickly as the 154-cm. Did I waste my money?
 
The dmt stone will cut the s30v quickly. I don't think you will get the super fine edge your looking for off of it either. It will give it a toothy edge, which for the s30v is a great edge for a working knife.

I have only used the spyderco medium and fine stones on their s30v and have never had trouble getting a sharp blade.

Time and patience and you will prevail.
 
I have two Japanese water stones that work decent on s30v. Maybe the large surface area helps also. 800 grit 1200 grit.
 
The diamond hone is the easy fix for that. The vanadium carbides in S30V make it more of a challenge with other abrasives, such as the aluminum oxide in the India and ceramic, and the natural 'novaculite' of the Arkansas stone, which won't touch them at all (as you've noticed). The matrix steel of the blade (carbides excluded) can still be cut by others like the India, and you can still get decent edges off of them. But the super-hard vanadium carbides will essentially act like the 'pebbles' added to concrete (to make it more wear-resistant), and the lesser abrasives will more or less skate over them while plowing out the matrix steel around them, dislodging the carbides instead of shaping them. Diamond will literally cut through the vanadium carbides and everything else, and your edges will be better served by it. The benefit is much more noticeable as the edge becomes more polished at finer grit levels below 10µ or so; your DMT EF (1200) is 9µ. This is when the size of the vanadium carbides, at ~2-4µ in S30V, begins to interfere with the grit of other abrasives (and it's exactly what you're noticing on the polishing-grade black Arkansas, especially). But the diamond will still cut the carbides cleanly, even at grit sizes smaller than the carbides themselves, and therefore shaping and polishing them much more effectively.


David
 
Last edited:
Obsessed with Edges said:
The diamond hone is the easy fix for that. The vanadium carbides in S30V make it more of a challenge with other abrasives, such as the aluminum oxide in the India and ceramic, and the natural 'novaculite' of the Arkansas stone, which won't touch them at all (as you've noticed). The matrix steel of the blade (carbides excluded) can still be cut by others like the India, and you can still get decent edges off of them. But the super-hard vanadium carbides will essentially act like the 'pebbles' added to concrete (to make it more wear-resistant), and the lesser abrasives will more or less skate over them while plowing out the matrix steel around them, dislodging the carbides instead of shaping them. Diamond will literally cut through the vanadium carbides and everything else, and your edges will be better served by it. The benefit is much more noticeable as the edge becomes more polished at finer grit levels below 10µ or so; your DMT EF (1200) is 9µ. This is when the size of the vanadium carbides, at ~2-4µ in S30V, begins to interfere with the grit of other abrasives (and it's exactly what you're noticing on the polishing-grade black Arkansas, especially). But the diamond will still cut the carbides cleanly, even at grit sizes smaller than the carbides themselves, and therefore shaping and polishing them much more effectively.


David
Click to expand...

excellent news, thanks for the comprehensive reply

thanks to all others for contributing
 
A DMT EF might be a bit of a jump from the India stone. Personally I like a Coarse or Fine DMT to finish S30V, follow it up with some 1 micron diamond compound on balsa and you will have a very sharp edge.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
The diamond hone is the easy fix for that. The vanadium carbides in S30V make it more of a challenge with other abrasives, such as the aluminum oxide in the India and ceramic, and the natural 'novaculite' of the Arkansas stone, which won't touch them at all (as you've noticed). The matrix steel of the blade (carbides excluded) can still be cut by others like the India, and you can still get decent edges off of them. But the super-hard vanadium carbides will essentially act like the 'pebbles' added to concrete (to make it more wear-resistant), and the lesser abrasives will more or less skate over them while plowing out the matrix steel around them, dislodging the carbides instead of shaping them. Diamond will literally cut through the vanadium carbides and everything else, and your edges will be better served by it. The benefit is much more noticeable as the edge becomes more polished at finer grit levels below 10µ or so; your DMT EF (1200) is 9µ. This is when the size of the vanadium carbides, at ~2-4µ in S30V, begins to interfere with the grit of other abrasives (and it's exactly what you're noticing on the polishing-grade black Arkansas, especially). But the diamond will still cut the carbides cleanly, even at grit sizes smaller than the carbides themselves, and therefore shaping and polishing them much more effectively.


David
Click to expand...

David, I just want to say I appreciate you and the other knife sharpening gurus sharing your knowledge. Not only does your post "give the answer" - i.e. what to do. You also explain it in detail in a way that is still lay man understandable.
 
Jason B. said:
A DMT EF might be a bit of a jump from the India stone. Personally I like a Coarse or Fine DMT to finish S30V, follow it up with some 1 micron diamond compound on balsa and you will have a very sharp edge.
Click to expand...

What happens if the jump is too much?

I've been reading around about knives but its a lot of information to take in at the beginning. I read that vegetable leather is good for stropping and ordered some of that too make a strop but I never heard of stropping off wood. What is the advantage?
 
380 - surgical black is a significant jump , and the arkie really is not the correct tool for the job.
 
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