S30V vs A2

[abo4ster]

What performance differences can be expected comparing S30V vs. A2 in a fixed blade, all other things being equal?

 

[SteelDriver]

Assuming a quality heat treat and the same edge geometry & polish . . .

S30V is clearly superior in abrasive edgeholding and corrosion resistance. A2 is easier to sharpen and polish the edge. Toughness should be comparable.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

On paper A2 is significantly impact tougher than S30V across the grain. In practice, I have used A2 from several makers, including those who run it soft like Mission and Reeve, and was never impressed with its flexibility nor toughness. It snapper readily and broke under impacts which were many times lighter than could be applied even to steels like 1095 without harm.

That being said, there are some makers who have used A2 like Busse who have a reputation for hard use blades, and a lot can be in the heat treatment. I would ask the maker specific questions about performance and see if they will guarantee results.

Other makers like R.J. Martin praise A2 for its sharpness and edge retention for fine ground blades like very acute chisel edges knives.

-Cliff

 

[Morgoth412]

Check out BRK&T for A2. They do a pretty good job with it.
-Kevin

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I have used it from Blackjack and also found it brittle there. In actually isn't (on paper) a tough steel, ceertainly no where near as flexible or as tough as the spring, shock or carbon steels. It has a reputation in the cutlery industry as being generally tough mainly from people who work with steels like D2, 440C, ATS-34, etc., that are *very* brittle.

-Cliff

 

[Jeff Clark]

Well Cliff, off the paper would you consider A2 as tougher than S30V? The original question is a comparison rather than absolute attributes.

 

[Morgoth412]

I have used it from Blackjack and also found it brittle there.

-Cliff

Hmm, I'm aware of the historic connections between BRK&T, Blackjack, and Marbles, but is the A2 heat treated the same from all? I don't doubt your findings, but I also don't doubt the testing that gets done on the BRK&T's on Knifeforums. They seem to do fine choping and batoning, even though they are more cutting knives then choppers.
-Kevin

 

[Batrachian]

It has a reputation in the cutlery industry as being generally tough mainly from people who work with steels like D2, 440C, ATS-34, etc., that are *very* brittle.

-Cliff

The only good knife I ever managed to break was a Benchmade 750BT in ATS-34. I tried to pry up a window that had been painted shut and broke off about 2 millimeters of tip, and only after really cranking on it (Benchmade replaced the blade for $35. ). Very tough by my standards. If S30V is tougher than ATS-34 then it's plenty tough. I can't imagine breaking any good knife under ordinary circumstances, except, as I say, through gross abuse.

Toughness is a somewhat overrated quality in a knife unless you really beat the crap out of it. It's probably the last thing on the list of things a knife should have.

 

[Morgoth412]

Toughness is a somewhat overrated quality in a knife unless you really beat the crap out of it. It's probably the last thing on the list of things a knife should have.

So true... Alot of makers try to make their knives tougher by going thicker and adding hollow grinds. Well it works...They are tougher, they just lose so much cutting performance its not worth it, IMHO. Obviously a ton of other people disagree though, as prybar knives are the trend now.
-Kevin

 

[Thomas Linton]

So true... Alot of makers try to make their knives tougher by going thicker and adding hollow grinds. Well it works...They are tougher, they just lose so much cutting performance its not worth it, IMHO. Obviously a ton of other people disagree though, as prybar knives are the trend now.
-Kevin

I think hollow grinds - a "razor grind" or "concave" grind - make better cutters at the cost of toughness.

The "thicker" part: a 1/4" steel bar is hard to snap, bit it may still microchip at the edge. It may depend on what you mean by "tough."

 

[Morgoth412]

I think hollow grinds - a "razor grind" or "concave" grind - make better cutters at the cost of toughness.

The "thicker" part: a 1/4" steel bar is hard to snap, bit it may still microchip at the edge. It may depend on what you mean by "tough."

In my experience hollowgrinds are tougher, while flat grinds are better slicers. Either way though, thicker blade spines make tougher knives, but hamper cutting performance. That much we can agree on.
-Kevin

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Regarding toughness, not every knife is built to cut simply paper. When you make a knfie weighing about a pound and ground from stock which is thicker than a prybar, you kind of intend for it to be used for more than peeling potatoes.

If you have a small paring knife, then toughness (in regards to impacts) isn't much of an issue. I have such knives made from high alloy steels at 63-66 HRC, all are very brittle, but it doesn't matter as it doesn't effect their use.

However I have veyr large knives, bowies, parangs, khukuries, machetes, etc., and toughness is pretty critical.

Jeff, based on what I have seen, neither have a significant advantage as both have low flexibility and toughness. There is no comparision to steels like INFI, A8, 5160, etc., steels like AUS-6 etc are also much tougher and more flexible .

-Cliff

 

[abo4ster]

To elaborate on the why of my question: I have been rotating between a Simonich Crowfoot in S30V and a Bark River Woodland Special in A2. While both are similar in size and blade shape the Bark River has a convex grind and the Crowfoot I believe is double flat ground. I have been impressed with both as the performance is very similar when carving wood. The differences I have noticed - the Bark River is capable of removing larger strips of wood, which I believe makes sense with the convex grind. The Crowfoot does seem to hold an edge longer which is nice for finer work, and the pinky hole does provide some additional leverage. Both have been easy to sharpen. Since I was comparing apples and oranges with the grinds and I am an amateur when it comes to knife steels, I was curious if someone could elaborate specifically on their individual performance.

 

[W.T. Beck]

It sounds like S30V is the better steel from your comparison description. If the Crowfoot holds an edge longer, and it is also rust resistant where A2 isn't, then it seems S30V is the better steel for small knives like yours. \

 

[abo4ster]

I sure do like that convex grind, but as I continue to learn, I am leaning towards the S30V. I also like Simonich knives for sentimental reasons.