S30v

N

Neo

Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
1,286
When (about 2 years ago) s30v was introduced the word was that it would be a steel special designed for the knife industry. The universal steel, twice as tough as A2, twice as wear resistant as D2 and stainless. This statement seems to be true. The other goal was to make a steel that would be widely available at a low price thanks to a good production method (or something in this order) It’s been a hole while so I don’t remember the exact words used.
After two years it still seems to be an expensive high-end steel witch very few big manufacturers use. It’s a shame. Will this change? I honestly don’t think so, unless a new “super” steel is born. :(
 
I think you may have been expecting too much from S30V. Hopefully it will save manufacturers a bit on material cost and a bit on machining cost so that they can hold the line on high-performance knife prices, and hopefully it'll prove to be easier to sharpen than some of the other recent steels like 440V. That would make me happy.
 
The latest 'wonder steel'!?

I think there are many properies to choose frome in choosing an EDC knife - and blade alloy is just one property.

I've read that D2 is the wonder steel, so I purchased a Benchmade 806D2. The 806D2 feels like a brick-in-hand compared to my older Spyderco 440V Military. Great D2 blade properties - so what? It sits idle, since the ergos of the older 440V Military are so superior to the 806D2 'brick'.

The 'perfect knife' is out there - somewhere - seemingly just out of reach.

My latest purchase - a used Strider SMF - is now undergoing a factory checkup. It appears to be the 'perfect blade' (just happens to be S30V blade alloy) - but with a disappointing lock execution.

I think it's a mistake to get preoccupied with one property of any knife - whether blade alloy, carry-weight, lock-type, point-shape, blade-grind, etc.

No matter what you select - six months away you'll be confronted with the next 'wonder steel', latest lock innovation, latest handle scale material.

Pick one. Cut something with it. Learn from the experience. Repeat.
 
gud4u,

I like the way you put that! I have had knives that fell short of expectations
and sit in a box.
 
S30V is probably my favorite stainless steel overall. For my uses, it seems to perform really well. You can get a top of the line S30V knife for around $100.00 - seems like a reasonable price to me.
 
Neo said:
When (about 2 years ago) s30v was introduced the word was that it would be a steel special designed for the knife industry. The universal steel, twice as tough as A2, twice as wear resistant as D2 and stainless. This statement seems to be true. The other goal was to make a steel that would be widely available at a low price thanks to a good production method (or something in this order) It’s been a hole while so I don’t remember the exact words used.
After two years it still seems to be an expensive high-end steel witch very few big manufacturers use. It’s a shame. Will this change? I honestly don’t think so, unless a new “super” steel is born. :(
Click to expand...
It was made for cutlery, and is stainless.
The rest of it :rolleyes:
 
just how low-priced should a knife with S30V be? i picked up my Spyderco Dodo for $60. you get more knife than you lose money.
 
Many Spyderco S30V offerings aren't all that expensive. And given that the blade is known to be tough and wear resistant, the manufacturers have to recoup from the machining cost. I mean, things would be a lot cheaper if you went AUS6, but there isn't all the nice things that come with S30V.
Once you find the right blade you won't think it's all that expensive.
 
The cost will come down some over time, but as long as it's "top of the line", it'll stay up there. The simple fact is that people who have a low price limit aren't going to be buying knives with exotic scales/handles and steel that is costly to produce (both materials and labor). And a manufacturer isn't likely to be teaming up an expensive blade with cheap handles. Putting a cheap blade in expensive handles won't be purchased by anyone. Thus, there will always be this dichotomy.
 
Planterz said:
And a manufacturer isn't likely to be teaming up an expensive blade with cheap handles. Putting a cheap blade in expensive handles won't be purchased by anyone. Thus, there will always be this dichotomy.
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What about the combination between FRN Handles and VG-10 or N690 steel (like certain Spyderco and Benchmade knives)? Those steels are pretty decent, IMHO. And the handles are cheap - or better said, inexpensive ;)
 
If you like the Millie (like I do) get one in S30V. You can easily pick one up for under $100 (under $80 on eBay), and that's a real value. It is an excellent performing steel.
 
Twice as tough as A2 and twice as wear resistant as D2 are both massive exaggerations. If you could get a stainless steel which was as tough as A2 at 60 HRC and as wear resistant and strong as D2 at 62 HRC you would have somethnig pretty amazing - S30V can't do that, I think you might have it confused with 3V.

-Cliff
 
Neo,
According to my data sheets from Crucible at similar RC S30V is only as tough as D-2. This is a long way from being as tough as A-2 much less twice as tough as A-2. S30V looks to have about 150% of the wear resistance of D-2.

As you know any steel is a trade off between the different properties. Crucible designed this steel to "offer the best combination of toughness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance. Its chemistry has been specially balanced to promote the formation vanadium carbides which are harder and more effective than chromium carbides in providing wear resistance." The above quote is straight off of the Crucible data sheet.

One of the overlooked qualities in this thread is corosion resistance, S30V is over 3 times more corosion resistant than 440C.

As far as being lower in cost well that is just not the case. It is much more expensive than D-2 and D-2 is not inexpensive. I do not have any first hand experience with how this steel works compared to D-2 so can not compare effort needed to finish compared to D-2. I currently have a batch of 30 blades almost ready for heat treat so should have more information before long.

Gud4u,
You make a very point. The overall package is what dictates wether a knife will be carried and used. I think a much overlooked aspect of knife performance is EDGE GEOMETRY! I personally think this is much more important to performance than blade steel or heat treat! I will probably be called to task on that statement. It is not that I don't think blade steel and heat treat are important, they are in a high performance knife. I like to think of it as a three legged stool. All three legs are important. If I could only have one, I would take edge geometry. As an example look how great a Swiss army paring knife cuts.

Tom
 
Tom Krein said:
Neo,
I think a much overlooked aspect of knife performance is EDGE GEOMETRY! I personally think this is much more important to performance than blade steel or heat treat!
Click to expand...

Huah! Benchmade's wharncliffe Griptilian cuts like nobody's business and is made out of 440C. The AFCK has an amazing thin blade, and Spyderco hollow grinds the knives just right. Buck uses 420 HC, but their knives in general have good geometry. Compare a flat ground knife like the grippy to a chopping monstrosity like CS's Recon Tanto, and it doesn't really matter how polished the edges are - the grippy will out slice the tanto no matter what.
 
Tom Krein said:
I think a much overlooked aspect of knife performance is EDGE GEOMETRY! I personally think this is much more important to performance than blade steel or heat treat!
Click to expand...

The properties of the blade material determine the limits of the functional geometry, and thus they are of critical importance, geometry can't be considered in isolation.

S30V is only as tough as A2 in regards to transverse impact tests, in other orientations (which are the actual important ones) it is far more brittle, so overall A2 is still much tougher.

-Cliff
 
I know that “twice as tough as A2, twice as wear resistant as D2” are serious exaggerations. I said it because I didn’t want to offend any “S30V – lovers”. I also know that the alloy is only a part of what makes a blade great. Heat treatment, blade geometry, the grinding, … everything is important. But there is a consensus S30V is great steel, and given all other elements are good, a knife would benefit with this steel.
It would be great if it was as common as for example 440A
 
Like everyone, the steel manufacturers want to make money.


Coming up with a better product is always in their game plan


S30V is NOT twice as tough or wear resistant as A2 or D2. It is the best stainless to date, but has some drawbacks, one of which is difficulty in machining.


That is probably the biggest reason more companies are not using it. It is very difficult to cut and grind, and finishing it poses even more difficulties.


For now, it is the best "stainless" going, but you can be sure they are working on something better, especially the competition.
 
I don't get the machinability, that was supposed to be the main reason that you use it over S90V. It doesn't have quite the hardness nor wear ressitance, but is a decent compromise which is much easier to grind.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,
CPM S30V is easier to work than S60V and S90V at similar RC levels, but that still does not make it easy to work. At similar RC levels it has 150% more wear resistance than D-2. That is saying something as D-2 at RC 61 is not too easy to work. :D

My feeling after talking with Crucible was that they wanted to design a true high performance stainless knife steel, and it would appear that they succeded.

Tom
 
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