S35V or CPM-3V?

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CPM-3V is cheaper and appears its "tougher" than S35V, but it isn't stainless. Any comments either way? I am used to 1095 so what would I notice after using either in comparison?

My EDC is a ESEE Izula II, 1095, and I have both rolled the edge and chipped it before. The chip happened cutting a zip tie against a tower leg - more of a straight on impact. I wish I had a picture of it, but it was in the center of the cutting edge and about 1/32" in to the blade and around 3/32" wide. It took 3-4 sharpening sessions (over the last several months) to work out, but its gone now. The rolled edge has happened more from slicing something against metal. The Izula is still going to be my "utility" knife, the size fits the bill for the kind of work I do with it, but I am trying to find a way to illustrate a couple uses I saw excessive wear with it that might help for someone else to illustrate how the other steels would hold up in comparison.

I'm looking in to some Bark River Bravo's. I like the G10 scale material and was looking around at other manufacturers that use it. I've never had a Bark River but they look real nice, without being overly "fancy" (though some of the burl woods and others get to that point). My ideal use for it would be as EDC when I'm not going to be doing any hard utility work, but it could also be a food prep knife. In short, it would be a finer, more refined blade in my collection.
 
Both are big steps above 1095. Now if you talk to Jerry Hossom he'll tell you 3V will cut steel easily, with photos to prove it . LOL You must be a HAM as I am .I cut zip ties from inside out to avoid problems ! While 3V is not stainless it doesn't stain much unlike 1095 .It's very tough ,holds an edge very well .I probably won't ever test my 3V to the limits under normal use. Very unusual steel !!
S35VN is a great steel too but doesn't have the toughness of 3V. My EDC is S35VN with it's better wear resistance and my best chopper is 3V for it's better toughness.. Get one of each
 
So if I am reading you correctly, mete, the S35VN has better edge retention = stays sharp longer. Whereas the CPM-3V will hold up better in impact/chopping scenarios, though looses its edge quicker?

In terms of holding an edge, where does 1095 fall in comparison to S35VN or CPM-3V? I find my Izula II to dull after a while. I try to touch it up once a week, but sometimes I go longer and can really tell the dull'ness. In those cases I take the grit back to 320 to work the edge back. Otherwise I'll usually run it at 600, sometimes going to 1000, and rarely I'll polish it up to 6000. With my paper wheel now I don't know what grit it is, but that might be all I'll use unless I am traveling.
 
I have knives in both, and of the two I think I slightly prefer the 3V. It seems to take a "keener" edge than the S35VN, although they are both primo steels. I'd gladly have a knife in either, but I think I would go with the 3V personally, unless there was a corrosive environment. If I lived near a coast, in a crazy-humid area or some other condition where corrosion was an issue, S35VN or CPM154 might be better choices.
 
Mete, I sincerely dislike being misquoted. If you can find where you think I have overstated my case for CPM-3V, please provide me/us with a link. I'll try to clarify it for you.
 
I haven't used S35VN yet, but I have used CPM 3V. I've been told that S35VN is close to S30V in edge holding ability. If that is the case, then CPM 3V, in my experience, would completely outclass it in both edge holding and toughness. By quite a bit.

3V isn't stainless, and that's perfectly fine with me. However, it might matter to you, so keep that in mind.
 
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Jerry Hossom said:
Mete, I sincerely dislike being misquoted. If you can find where you think I have overstated my case for CPM-3V, please provide me/us with a link. I'll try to clarify it for you.
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I think he is referring to you chopping through 8d common bright nails from Home Depot as a test for your steels/edges.
 
You may well be right, Hardheart, though I'll point out that was a test and certainly not a claim. I've also chopped through nails with 154CM, but it's not recommended. :)
 
Jerry Hossom said:
You may well be right, Hardheart, though I'll point out that was a test and certainly not a claim. I've also chopped through nails with 154CM, but it's not recommended. :)
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A belt grinder would come in really handy after that. :D
 
I'd get a custom made 3v equivalent of your Isula II if you're happy with the 1095, then the 3v is more corrosion resistant. Especially at high hardness (for it RC 60-61), and is tougher. Its also going to have great edge retention compared to 1095, or S35V.... It isn't stainless if thats the more important factor then look at S35V, but you aren't having problems with 1095 then 3V will be fine...

At Rc60 3v is something like 2.5-3 times tougher than S35V.... and about 20% more wear resistant. At Rc 62 3V is only twice as tough but then its about twice as wear resistant as S35V.... even at Rc59 3V is impressive ...

3V is well suited to a finer more refined blade, since its so tough, however it doesn't tend to get used that way. Instead it generally gets made into massive nearly indestructible knives that can be used to cut anything... BUt I'm sure you could find a custom maker to put it into any shape and style you wanted...

No its not the ultimate in edge holding but it blows most common steels out of the water its clearly superior to S35V and a light years beyond 1095..
 
I think given your intended uses you'd be better off with a stainless steel. I would say unless its a big knife intended for hard use there doesn't seem to be a great advantage to going with carbon steel. If you're using it for food prep and you forget to clean it (something I have done frequently) you will have rust issues in short order. I would say consider D2, CPM-154, S30/5V, Elmax, M390 and S90V in descending order of preference. Some say the latter is hard to get but the Spyderco South Fork is currently available in S90V and I just ordered a general use utility field knife in S90V from Scott Gossman, a knifemaker with a forum here, so its not that hard to find.
 
3V is a great steel. I have usually preferred stainless, but 3V has converted me.
Bark River make a necker in 3v, that you could carry instead of the Izula. Would be a good comparison.
 
This is how CPM S35VN and CPM 3V measure up in toughness and wear resistance.

cpm-knife-chart.jpg


Now as you can see, CPM 3V is A LOT tougher, in fact it blows CPM S35VN out of the water in that department. Where CPM S35VN has a (3) in toughness CPM 3V has a (7), so its over twice as durable. Now as for wear resistance CPM S35VN has a (3) where CPM 3V has a (2) so the S35VN will keep it's edge longer. Now in the graph below I'll post chip and corrosion resistance ect.

charts-basic-knife-steel.jpg


Now here you can see that CPM S35VN is the winner in several fields. It has a tiny bit more chip resistance then 3V. Where the 3V has a (100) the S35VN has a (110). In corrosion the S35VN has a (120) where the 3V has a (50) so the S35VN wins in that department as well. So in the end 3V will have almost 3x the impact toughness as S35VN, but the S35VN beats it in the other fields except ease of manufacturing where they are a tie.

Honestly I LOVE both steels and I firmly believe that if you are a true knife nut like I am then owning something in both of them would be a great benefit. Both steels have their use, and anyone of them would IMHO make an excellent addition to a knife collection.

I hope this helps to answer some questions about the Two knife steels along with their strengths and weaknesses.
 
Jerry Hossom said:
You may well be right, Hardheart, though I'll point out that was a test and certainly not a claim. I've also chopped through nails with 154CM, but it's not recommended. :)
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You are a brave man Mr. Hossom. I don't think I could do that to my knives! How did the 154cm hold up, and what was it's rockwell hardness if you don't mind me asking?
 
You bumped a five year old thread. ;)

Also, without knowing heat treat/hardness figures those charts are generalizations.
 
bearfacedkiller said:
You bumped a five year old thread. ;)

Also, without knowing heat treat/hardness figures those charts are generalizations.
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Yeah I didn't look at the year it was posted, just the topic. And I do agree that the heat treat has a big role to play, but some things will not change like 3V's toughness over S35vn, ect.
 
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