S35vn are they all the same?

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Red0ctober

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Aug 1, 2017
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After getting a couple of Kizers and not being to convinced by their S35vn steel it's putting me off getting any other blades using it.

I'm really liking the ZT 0452 but if the blades have the same properties as the Kizers I know I'm just going to be upset. There don't seem to be many complaints about Kizers heat treat so I'm just wondering if I was expecting too much after using benchmades S30 and 154 knives?

Stuck on the fence between a 0920 and 0452, I have likes and dislikes on both but need to make my mind up.
 
The S35vn steels all should have the same components, otherwise they wouldn't be S35vn steel.

Differences in performance could be caused by heat treatment and blade shape. I have a couple of Kizers, older models, that perform as well as my CRK Zaan, all S35vn steel.
 
I got two Kizers, both have the newer logo designs but both perform just the same. They are too easy to sharpen and the edge dulls a bit too fast, it's easy to strop sharp again but I just though that s35 would perform a bit better.

Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated.
 
Did you buy from reputable sellers? I own a few kizer's in s35vn and sharpened a couple and they seem to be up with the better heat treated s35vn I've tried. There are a few cutting tests out there on youtube that offer the same opinion. Rockwell to Rockweel, s35vn should hold an edge a bit longer than s30v, and definitely longer than 154CM by a fair margin.
 
That's what I would have thought, seller is reliable and I haven't heard of any Kizer clones on the market. They seem to really dull quickly under hard use, slicing through hide or carving wood and they fail on the fingernail test only after a little while on the areas of most use

I am giving the edge a mirror polish but it seemed about the same even with a rougher bevel
 
GatorFlash1 said:
The S35vn steels all should have the same components, otherwise they wouldn't be S35vn steel.

Differences in performance could be caused by heat treatment and blade shape. I have a couple of Kizers, older models, that perform as well as my CRK Zaan, all S35vn steel.
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I have quite a few different brands in s35vn, kizer, CRK,ZT, Hinderer. The performance is in heat treat and blade geometry.That being said everyone that I have used I have had no issues with. I don’t ever let them go dull and will strop them.

The 0452 is the only knife I can get rid of in my collection. Bought and sold variants maybe 10x before. But you can’t go wrong with either of those ZTs
 
Sirquest2k said:
I have quite a few different brands in s35vn, kizer, CRK,ZT, Hinderer. The performance is in heat treat and blade geometry.That being said everyone that I have used I have had no issues with. I don’t ever let them go dull and will strop them.

The 0452 is the only knife I can get rid of in my collection. Bought and sold variants maybe 10x before. But you can’t go wrong with either of those ZTs
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I've actually been looking for a replacement for my Kizer knife which I haven't sold yet, it's the V3 flipper and it's really nicely put together and stuff but that blade just put me off.

I got big hands and finding knives that are comfortable and hard but it wasn't bad on that specific Kizer because of the geometry.
 
Red0ctober said:
I've actually been looking for a replacement for my Kizer knife which I haven't sold yet, it's the V3 flipper and it's really nicely put together and stuff but that blade just put me off.

I got big hands and finding knives that are comfortable and hard but it wasn't bad on that specific Kizer because of the geometry.
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I have the gemini, uprising, and two gunhammer (bowie and radian), and had one of the hinderer style alpha number is name modes from Kizer, along with many others. Haven’t had an issue with any of them, only difference I can see is that the older models that I have had weren’t sharp in comparison to the new, which are razors!

I also have the xl sized hands and prefer 3.75” I have a couple of xm-24 slicer and spanto grinds that I put through a lot of use and swear by them
 

Check out the cut tests on Cedric and ada gear and out doors.

Kizers s35vn seems legit to me. Maybe you got one with a bad heat treatment, maybe it's due to improperly sharpened or a bur that's not removed.

Kizer get there s35vn from crucible. So it's legit steel.

The other thing to think of is blade geometry and what your cutting.
 
Sirquest2k said:
I have the gemini, uprising, and two gunhammer (bowie and radian), and had one of the hinderer style alpha number is name modes from Kizer, along with many others. Haven’t had an issue with any of them, only difference I can see is that the older models that I have had weren’t sharp in comparison to the new, which are razors!

I also have the xl sized hands and prefer 3.75” I have a couple of xm-24 slicer and spanto grinds that I put through a lot of use and swear by them
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The gunhammer is my favourite one out of them I don't like recurves but that knife has probably one of the best looking recurve blades, got my hands on a grey contego and I've become very partial to the axis lock with a heavy blade, so much that I ordered a m390 version now when they got more stock in, never thought I'd like benchmade this much.
 
Not all steels with the same chemistry have to come out of the factory the same. Heat treatment is just as critical to, and probably more important than, composition when it comes to performance. Chemistry vs Physics. How the individual molecules arrange themselves to form lattice structures in the metal determines how well the steel will hold up under stress. Applying a poor heat treatment to a premium steel is like putting cheap $70 tires on a Ferrari. It will chip easily. It can fracture. It won;t hold an edge well, etc...
 
Mo2 said:

Check out the cut tests on Cedric and ada gear and out doors.

Kizers s35vn seems legit to me. Maybe you got one with a bad heat treatment, maybe it's due to improperly sharpened or a bur that's not removed.

Kizer get there s35vn from crucible. So it's legit steel.

The other thing to think of is blade geometry and what your cutting.
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I would not have expected that and many thanks for posting it. I'll go back to the blade and check it under a loupe and see if I can see something wrong that I'm doing on the sharpening.
 
How well s35vn performs depends on your point of reference I think. If you're coming from 8cr or AUS8, then it should be leagues better in just about every category. If however you have other knives in ZDP-189, M390, M4, etc. s35vn is probably going to be a bit of a let down. It's usually a bit softer, dulls a bit faster, but sharpens easier. Everything's a trade off.

Generally, I'd rather pay less and get something like D2, 154CM, etc. or pay more for M390, M4, etc. s35vn falls into and odd no-man's land at the moment. Not bad enough to be cheap, but not good enough to be expensive. I'm sure in a year or two it'll be what vg-10 or d2 are now. It's already trending that way.
 
Red0ctober said:
After getting a couple of Kizers and not being to convinced by their S35vn steel it's putting me off getting any other blades using it.

I'm really liking the ZT 0452 but if the blades have the same properties as the Kizers I know I'm just going to be upset. There don't seem to be many complaints about Kizers heat treat so I'm just wondering if I was expecting too much after using benchmades S30 and 154 knives?

Stuck on the fence between a 0920 and 0452, I have likes and dislikes on both but need to make my mind up.
Click to expand...
I'm on that same fence. I've been looking at the 801ti since it came out, but $200 for a steel I'm not super fond of has kept me from buying one. Hoping for a sprint in 20cv or 204p at some point. Might just have to settle for a second hand one to save some $.
 
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T.L.E. Sharp said:
How well s35vn performs depends on your point of reference I think. If you're coming from 8cr or AUS8, then it should be leagues better in just about every category. If however you have other knives in ZDP-189, M390, M4, etc. s35vn is probably going to be a bit of a let down. It's usually a bit softer, dulls a bit faster, but sharpens easier. Everything's a trade off.

Generally, I'd rather pay less and get something like D2, 154CM, etc. or pay more for M390, M4, etc. s35vn falls into and odd no-man's land at the moment. Not bad enough to be cheap, but not good enough to be expensive. I'm sure in a year or two it'll be what vg-10 or d2 are now. It's already trending that way.
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Agreed on all those points, I started off on the bad side and worked my way up because I always want to see what they can get pushed too and the S35 just didn't win me over but I could have also just gotten a bad batch from them or the reseller.
 
Red0ctober said:
Agreed on all those points, I started off on the bad side and worked my way up because I always want to see what they can get pushed too and the S35 just didn't win me over but I could have also just gotten a bad batch from them or the reseller.
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I think it has its place. If you want a steel that performs well, but really dislike sharpening and don't want to pay for a service like mine, s35vn is the steel for you. It's kind of the perfect marriage of edge holding and easy to maintain.

I do this all day though. Maxamet is no harder for me to sharpen than s35vn... so I'd rather have the added performance. If you've just got a double sided stone and a piece of leather, you're going to want s35vn.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
I think it has its place. If you want a steel that performs well, but really dislike sharpening and don't want to pay for a service like mine, s35vn is the steel for you. It's kind of the perfect marriage of edge holding and easy to maintain.

I do this all day though. Maxamet is no harder for me to sharpen than s35vn... so I'd rather have the added performance. If you've just got a double sided stone and a piece of leather, you're going to want s35vn.
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I like my sharpening;) so the harder the better, I can get a mirror polish on M4 quite easily. The price of the Kizers are the main attraction and they do have some nice more toned down designs compared to the other Chinese guys on the market but I just don't know if I want to pass any more money their way.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
Generally, I'd rather pay less and get something like D2, 154CM, etc. or pay more for M390, M4, etc. s35vn falls into and odd no-man's land at the moment. Not bad enough to be cheap, but not good enough to be expensive. I'm sure in a year or two it'll be what vg-10 or d2 are now. It's already trending that way.
Click to expand...

BubbaGump said:
Not all steels with the same chemistry have to come out of the factory the same. Heat treatment is just as critical to, and probably more important than, composition when it comes to performance. Chemistry vs Physics. How the individual molecules arrange themselves to form lattice structures in the metal determines how well the steel will hold up under stress. Applying a poor heat treatment to a premium steel is like putting cheap $70 tires on a Ferrari. It will chip easily. It can fracture. It won;t hold an edge well, etc...
Click to expand...

What these guys said.

S35vn is a great steel, tough, stain resistant, and better-than-average edge holding. With good heat treat, and then working in concert with other key factors such as blade geometry, a sufficiently thin grind, and a well sharpened edge, S35vn can be an excellent knife steel. But here's the catch: you really need all these things to come together to make a great knife. So even though the 'recipe' for S35vn is the same with maker A or maker B using it to produce the knife, there are are multiple variables including the HT, plus the details about the blade design and the edge. So while the underlying steel recipe is the same, the resulting S35vn blade from one knife maker to another is never the same.

Like TLE Sharp, I've reached a point where--given the current range of steel choices and their performance and costs--S30v and S35vn are not steels that I'm seeking a lot, because they feel like they're in the middle ground of price-and-performance that I'm less interested in. There's absolutely nothing wrong with either. But I've found that I can get very strong performing much lower cost blades that are either very easy to sharpen (Buck's 420HC), or have great long-lasting edges (D2--like the Ontario Rat 1 and 2 folders). If I want something more premium with better stain resistance and long lasting edges, the step 'up' for me is not S30v/S35vn, it's M4, M390, 20cv, or CTS-XHP.
 
I have/had a variety of blades in S35VN CRK/Chaves/TSF all have held up so well that it has become a highly regarded folder steel for me.
I don’t know if they’re all the same but I haven’t noticed a big difference between the three makers in performance. I do tend to strop and clean my blades as needed after use though.
 
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