S35VN edge-holding

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maxbelg

Joined
Nov 3, 2010
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I don't know whether it is appropriate to do this here but if not, I respectfully ask the moderators to remove this post.

I got a bit frustrated in the thread on S35VN and the "failure" of the Sebenza And Spyderco Native. I believe the thread started with a legitimate question but deteriorated into accusations being thrown around.

Anyway the reason for posting is this: Cliff Stamp over on the Spyderco Forum has posted some very informative information on S35VN (CATRA test to follow next week) and edge-holding and steels in general in this thread:

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52900

I suggest reading it or at least the posts by Cliff Stamp.:)
 
thanks for the link, it's way more civil over there, and some nice information :thumbup:
 
Thanks for the link - I am a member over there but don't visit as much. I will be interested to see the CATRA results.

I belong to several forums - and it always seems to happen when a controversial topic is posted. There are those that hate, there are those that question and doubt, there are those that accept, and there are those that troll. Thankfully a voice of reason (Sal) weighed in and as someone once told me - "Liars don't figure, figures don't lie". The test results will speak volumes.
 
I'm afraid it is deteriorating a little bit over there as well with some posts starting to look just like here with "starry-eyed fan-boys just eat that crap...." etc strewn between some useful posts:(........................The posts by Cliff Stamp however are objective and informative as ever!!!:)
 
maxbelg said:
I'm afraid it is deteriorating a little bit over there as well with some posts starting to look just like here with "starry-eyed fan-boys just eat that crap...." etc strewn between some useful posts:(........................The posts by Cliff Stamp however are objective and informative as ever!!!:)
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Not everything in the real world is always going to be rose petals and chocolate....... No matter how much some what them to be........

That's the difference between those with rose colored glasses on (starry eyed fan boys) AND the real world.....

The truth isn't always what some really want it to be all the time....
 
Dear Ankerson,

I value your tests for the additional knowledge it brings to the subject. I thank you for that.

Unfortunately I don't think you get my point:o. I would love a discussion without ANY allegations and comments which can in any way be interpreted as attacks or derogatory comments or allegations. Some of your comments can be understood to be inflammatory and lead to reactions by others (myself included). It seems from your posts that you have a personal problem with one particular maker: CR. Being a scientist I can not take your test results as seriously as I otherwise would, because it certainly doesn't seem that you are objective and it seems you had some run-in with CR before. I also believe that this goes both ways and would expect makers/manufacturers to restrain from allegations and derogatory comments after knife tests. I must say that I think they know very well how to do this at spyderco.

So I plead with you: Please continue your tests and let the objective results speak for themselves!:)

Best regards, Maxbelg
 
maxbelg said:
Dear Ankerson,

I value your tests for the additional knowledge it brings to the subject. I thank you for that.

Unfortunately I don't think you get my point:o. I would love a discussion without ANY allegations and comments which can in any way be interpreted as attacks or derogatory comments or allegations. Some of your comments can be understood to be inflammatory and lead to reactions by others (myself included). It seems from your posts that you have a personal problem with one particular maker: CR. Being a scientist I can not take your test results as seriously as I otherwise would, because it certainly doesn't seem that you are objective and it seems you had some run-in with CR before. I also believe that this goes both ways and would expect makers/manufacturers to restrain from allegations and derogatory comments after knife tests. I must say that I think they know very well how to do this at spyderco.

So I plead with you: Please continue your tests and let the objective results speak for themselves!:)

Best regards, Maxbelg
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I don't have a problem with Chris Reeve.... :confused:

I DO own 2 Umnumzaans and had 2 Sebenzas before, but I sold those a long time ago, did fit my hand right, that was my problem not CRK's.

And I do have 2 very positive reviews of the Umnumzaans out there.

Yes CRK does make some great knives, we all know that I am sure.

Yes They have been making knives for a very long time and have become the standard for F&F and tolerances because they are at such a high level, we all know that too.

NOW...... ;)

My issue here is that when there is any kind of problem, even in a above the board good test using a good method people attack the tester.....

Crap Happens, it really does, and it can and will happen to any manufacturer.

NOBODY is perfect 100% of the time so things like this will happen from time to time and need to be looked into to see what the cause could be and is.

Admit the problem or that there was a problem or even could be a problem, address it and move the @#$^ on, don't try and pass the buck, push it under the rug and give BS AH excuses and say we have been making knives for X amount of years so there can't be an issue........ That is complete and utter BS to the highest level.....

THAT is my problem with this.

CRK has lost some points with me in general over this issue, that really doesn't mean much in big picture though, but I will be doing some thinking on CRK and how and what my general opinion will be for the future.
 
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Thanks for that post Ankerson. I agree that restraining from allegations and derogatory comments should go both ways, as I stated above.
 
maxbelg said:
Thanks for that post Ankerson. I agree that restraining from allegations and derogatory comments should go both ways, as I stated above.
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No problem. :)

When someone tells me they are perfect I will call them a liar to their face because nobody is perfect nor is anything made by man.

That's ego and nothing more.
 
If you view both channels by CTS&ANK and past history; you will see both of them are long time CRk buyers and fans. That's why I love their testing and responses. It's always hard to accept something from someone who is a Fan Boy or a Hater from the beginning or in the end- and I feel/know both of these people provide us with outstanding and complete non-biased comments on brand or by owner and simply just as a tool.

I will say this "as" I currently house a Large 21 in my pocket = ) I wish the CRk comment came with a little more tact than blanket statement; but I fully understand the thoughts and feelings towards being the owner of a smaller, privately held, high attention to detail company and receiving info/testing on a current steel utilized (Good or Bad).

I feel that Sal addressed this in a more tactful, understanding and pro-active approach. But it's my opinion- I believe this is the root of some comments your referring to.

I will also leave you with this.... I bought my first Jeep- went all out custom order brand new 2011 Rubicon (Fully Loaded) It's been in the shop over 7x... since February 11'- People/Users in the Jeep forum were so outraged that I was upset posting all of the issues I was having- People need to be more understanding to the users and not so much the owners of the companies. This jeep is 35k new which is a lot of money or at least for us... and just because there or 100,000 Jeep owners with crazy fan boy mentality's doesn't make the 7+ shop visits go away = )
 
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senfinger said:
I will say this "as" I currently house a Large 21 in my pocket = ) I wish the CRk comment came with a little more tact than blanket statement; but I fully understand the thoughts and feelings towards being the owner of a privately held/smaller with high attention to detail company and receiving info/testing on a current steel utilized (Good or Bad).

I feel that Sal addressed this in a more tactful, understanding, pro-active approach. But's it's a opinion- I believe this is the root of some comments your referring to.
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It read like a generic typical template cut and paste response to me and yeah those are irritating......

It was like OK this issue, scroll down to needed response.... OK that's it.... Click on that one...... Copy and paste..... We are done.... Next......

Sal Glesser is a stand up guy and I have a ton of respect for him and Spyderco as a company in the way that he has handled problems when they have come up.

After this I have to do some thinking on CRK.....
 
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I see no reason to close a thread like this with a technical discussion. But we do need to be careful with cross-forum links. Putting a link to one manufacturer's forum in another manufacturer's forum is not a good idea. I moved this to General Knife Discussion.
 
Cliff Stamp has been banned by more than one forum. That says a lot.

But to the question . I have S30V Sebenzas , now carry a S35VN Sebenza ,and have some CPM 154 blades.The three are fine blades, I'm a fan of all of them .I'd have to conclude that S35VN is about half way between CPM154 and S30V in performance . My edc does what they're for - cutting string , paper, cardboard, wood, stranded copper wire, plastic, steak, and anything else that needs cutting .These three steels do the job well.
 
I am interested to see how this progresses as time goes on as more knives get into peoples hands and are used.
 
Ankerson said:
I am interested to see how this progresses as time goes on as more knives get into peoples hands and are used.
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Yes, I'm also very interested in the final conclusions about S35VN. My own prediction is that it won't differ from S30V to any measurable degree in terms of edge-holding, but I'd like to hear whether anybody else experienced the steel as easier to sharpen than S30V? I subjectively thought that it took fewer strokes to touch up my S35VN blades than S30V.:)
 
Esav Benyamin said:
I see no reason to close a thread like this with a technical discussion. But we do need to be careful with cross-forum links. Putting a link to one manufacturer's forum in another manufacturer's forum is not a good idea. I moved this to General Knife Discussion.
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Sorry, I'll refrain from cross-forum posting in future.:)
 
I have both S30V and S35VN Sebenzas and it does seem like the S35VN is easier to touch up. May sound strange but it reminds more of 1095 than S30V. I don't mean that in a negative way since 1095 is durable and easy to sharpen. Not the best at edge holding but simply require more touch-ups. Of course S35VN is stainless.
 
I have read Cliff's posts, but I am an absolute newby in this area (and completely stomped off by reading these threads on S35V and off-posts :jerkit:). There must be more people here like me :) .

Can anyone give me a summary/conclusion of the discussion?

I also ask this because I interpret Cliff's postings as follows:
- S35V won't perform much different from S30V and S30V and S30V is tried and well-tested
- other tests with S35V don't show anything worrying
- the problem therefore must be caused by a micro-structure issue, such as retained austenite

If this is a correct summary (again, I know very little of the subject, please correct me), it is, to me, not a satisfactory answer to what was shown in the videos. The guy was able to consistently show the problem with S35V knives from Spyderco and CRK. That cannot be explained by an occasional micro-structure issue, at least, not satisfactorily.
 
This is my current position as well.

The notion that any knife MFG, especially a knife as well made as CRK's, wouldn't appear to place the same importance to the blade steel and heat treat as many of their customers do, makes my brain throw an error. I know CR is somewhat set in his ways and of course we can all vote with our wallets if it's too much for us to handle but what is up with not listening and evolving with the rest of the industry?

I'm pretty sure the majority of knife enthusiasts would prefer a harder heat treat when harder means the ideal heat treat for a given alloy and there aren't many excuses that would change our minds.

I can't speak for others but I don't need a knife that sharpens easily when I never lose an edge on my EDC folders. I have lost them on camp knives a little but not my folders. And I would prefer to not have to touch up the edge as often as I might with S30V or S35VN at 58-59.

I'm finished now :)



Ankerson said:
CRK has lost some points with me in general over this issue, that really doesn't mean much in big picture though, but I will be doing some thinking on CRK and how and what my general opinion will be for the future.
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