S5, A winner steel?

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
355
I've been looking at the Crucibleservice.com for a bit and a stell that seems to strike as a good knife steel is S5.

Here's a link to the page showing abunch of steels to compare it to.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/coldftol.htm
From what it looks like it has about the saem wear resistance as O1 and 06 and about double the toughness.

Heres another link with a little more detailed information about S5.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/labelle.htm

Any comments are more than welcome.

Sincerely,
Adam
 
Adam. Edgehopper. S5 isn't much of a steel at all. Its' main problem is lack of wear resistance. What do you expect from a steel with a composition of C 0.6, Cr. 0.25, V 0.2 and Mo 0.3 ? There is not much good stuff there; it is a low alloy steel.

Go back to your Cold Forming Tool Steel chart and see how M2 or M4 compare with S5; each has much more abrasion resistance than S5. Here, you probably say, 'but Dr. Walt, look at the toughness of S5.' Well, Adam, that IS what the chart says, but remember that BM brought out AFCK's in M2 because they were tougher than ATS-34?

Now go to the plastics tooling table and take a look at CSM-21. WOW!! This has toughness off the scale! Even better than S7, which is the same as S5! Well, Adam,
CSM-21 is 15% Cr, Ni 4.0, Cu 3.5, Mo 0.2, and C of 0.02 !! This is a steel very similar to the 18-8 stuff they use in flatware. Note that the Rc is 33-42 typical.

So toughness, which is difficult to measure anyway, is even more difficult to use to determine how a steel will perform.

Also, go back to the Cold Forming Tool Materials chart and look at CPM 9V, 10V, and 15V. Notice something? Right! As the wear resistance goes up, the toughness goes down. This is frequently the case. Further, the toughness is really only a SWAG, as the heat treatment can have a dramatic effect on the steel.

CPM manufacturing is designed to allow for greater amounts of alloy ingredients to be present throughout the steel, especially carbides. These steels offer significant advantages over traditional ingot cooled steels, which tend to allow the components to separate out.

S5 steel is an old fashioned ingot steel, which was good in its' time, but is hardly cutting edge (groan) now.

I am having a Kit Carson folder made from CPM 420V, and another poster has chosen CPM 10V. Why don't you give me your views on these two choices? See you, my friend, Walt

As always, any comments, questions, suggestions or criticisms welcomed. WW
 
Well Walt, you might be right how S5 wouldn't make a good heavy cutter. But there are more than 1 kind of knife. It might make a good thrower or even short sword, where wear resistance is not the prime concern.

Sincerely,
Adam Hymas MD

PS I was looking over the wear resistance chart, I has just as much as O1, L6 and 52100. Which are all common among utility knives.


[This message has been edited by Adamantium (edited 25 December 1998).]
 
I'm working on 10 smaller and one kitchen knife from CPM 420 V right now. They just came back from hardening and tempering to RC 58, and if these knives cut as tough as they grind, then they should be great. CPM 420 V is SUPER expensive but the high % vanadium seems to be what gives the steel it toughness. The rec. working hardness is RC 58 as the best compromise between edgeholding and toughness.

Now if I can just get my post-Christmas over fed butt into the shop, maybe I can get those knives done ...
 
Kevin. CPM420V is expensive, but not SUPER expensive. Talonite is SUPER expensive, $140/lb!!

BTW, don't take the kidding between Adam and me seriously. He is an eager learner, for a teenager. The MD after his name stands for Mildly Deranged.
 
$140 per Lbs. is certainly SUPER expensive... gee now that DM 130 per Kilo for CPM 420 V seems almost like, well, CHRISTMAS!

PS. I finally got two of the CPM 420 V knives finished and the other 9 are ALMOST finished... Hey Doc, I think my fingertips need medical attention... :-)

------------------

 
Kevin; sorry to hear about your finger problems; I suggest that you pad your fingertips with something thick enough to help protect them, but thin enough to allow you to feel the steel through.

In the mean time, since I cannot examine your fingers, just send me one of your completed knives, and my experienced eye will be able to tell just how badly your fingers are damaged!!
wink.gif
Walt
 
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