S7 vs 3V. Your Experience.

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bladeninja

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Mar 26, 2014
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I'm looking at buying another knife in S7 and need your opinions.

When doing a comparison of steel composition between my other knives, it seems that S7 is tougher than 3v but doesn't have as good edge retention and has .70 manganese and .35 silicon which 3v doesn't have in it's composition at all.

My intention is to use this knife (4.75" blade) for chopping, batoning and the likes. What advantages does S7 offer other than superior toughness? Will I see a noticeable difference between S7 and 3V?

I know not all things being equal but if blade length, thickness, HT and geometry were identical, using these 2 different steels in the same application, would you say one would do the job better?

Will I be sharpening S7 after the first 10 minutes of use or can I expect it to hold up half the day or longer like 3v?

A lot of thoughts here and anything you have to say about this will be a help.
 
IMO, the main differences between S7 and 3V as knife steels are corrosion resistance - CPM-3V holds it off MUCH better than S7 - and wear resistance - again, 3V much better. If you are chopping wood, expect no difference if both hardened to 58 Rc. If you are planing wood, 3V is a better choice. If you are cutting cardboard or rope or carpet, 3V is a better choice. If you are preparing food or working in a wet environment, 3V is a better choice. That said, S7 is not a bad choice, it can certainly get the job done, I'd pick it over 1095 (e.g. ESEE) any day of the week.

[video=youtube;hj_1lrnQIkA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj_1lrnQIkA[/video]
 
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Thanks Chiral.Grolim! In fact it will replace my Esee 5 so I guess I can justify the purchase even more now that you mention it.
 
disclaimer: I have no experience with either of these steels.

I thought that S7 was known for for two things:

1) incredible toughness (its a jackhammer steel IIRC)
2) Horrible corrosion resistance (similar to L6, but worse)

I thought wear resistance was more or less inline or slightly below other "non standout" steels (1095 for instance).

Am I horribly wrong in that understanding?
 
bladeninja said:
Thanks Chiral.Grolim! In fact it will replace my Esee 5 so I guess I can justify the purchase even more now that you mention it.
Click to expand...

LOL :) Glad to help.

ocnLogan said:
...
I thought wear resistance was more or less inline or slightly below other "non standout" steels (1095 for instance).

Am I horribly wrong in that understanding?
Click to expand...

Not wrong at all, from my understanding - tough and rust-prone.
I'd choose S7 over 1095/CV or XC90 because Becker/Kabar and ESEE (Rowen) and others leave it soft (55-56Rc) to maintain toughness. At carbide content this low, matrix hardness to resist deformation is your primary asset in wear-resistance. S7 is usually HT'd to 57-58Rc in knives and is tougher than 1095 at that hardness = stronger, tougher, more wear-resistant blade assuming similar geometry.

Everybody loves compar-o-graphs, right? ;) From Crucible: https://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/tooldie/t&dchemtbl.html
 
My experience with Scrapyard S7 and Kershaw 3V is that they both perform better than I need. The 3V does resist corrosion better in my seaside location. The 3V seems to take a keener edge but I would guess that has a great deal to do with the heat treat.

For me: big knife in S7; medium knife in 3V with a higher hardness and a slimmer profile suits me best.
 
After owning a bunch of both steels, I feel that 3V is the better overall steel. The edge holds much longer, it has better corrosion resistance and it is as tough as you need it to be. S7 wears faster, corrodes quicker but is nearly indestructible when done right. It's toughness is well above 3V, but in the other categories it looses to 3V. One issue is that in my 3V knives I have noticed small chipping instead of denting. In S7 it is always denting. I prefer denting, but again, you will be sharpening the S7 blade more often. I like both steels. If you are going to build a huge chopper S7 may be the better choice. Not saying that 3V is not good in a big knife, because it is, but S7 is tougher. But in all other categories 3V is a great all arounder. Bushcraft knife 3V for sure.

As for 1095(Chiral mentioned it). I would rather buy an ESEE 1095 blade than any production Ontario/Gerber/Buck/etc in 3V. Proper(and consistent, which is something many of these makers lack) HT is just as important and I bet that a 1095 ESEE can outlast many 3V blades just because of better HT.
 
Learning a lot here on this topic. Thanks guys! I guess my biggest concern really is corrosion. I'm in the Pacific NW where it rains constantly so this S7 blade is going to get soaked under the scales which happens to be fixed. I'm not interested in taking my Wife's hair dryer along hanging from a dangler sheath on my left hip to keep it dry. Maybe I won't worry about it and just take it out on the nice days.
 
Without any 1st hand experience with either, looking on paper, 3v makes the exceptionally better standard knife choice, with 40% more carbon, more then 2x the chromium, 10x the vanadium, nearly the same in every other category + tungsten (but no copper)... Gonna be a much more resilient, stronger, and toothy slicing edge holder...

S7 looks more like a better chopper steel; machete or even axe choice with only 0.45-0.55% carbon, low chromium and vanadium, and a bit of copper added... It honestly looks like a cross between non-stainless 420hc and a heavily modified stronger, tougher, more corrosion resistant (but still far from stainless) 1055; same carbon levels, with a small bit of chromium (way less then 420hc) and moly (way more then 420hc) thrown in, and with trace amounts of vanadium (same as 420hc) plus the addition of copper...
 
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Considering that S7 is used in some of the worst situations and it holds up fine I think you would be ok. S7 is used in the worst application possible:

iStock_000006914955_Small.jpg
 
bladeninja said:
I'm looking at buying another knife in S7 and need your opinions.

When doing a comparison of steel composition between my other knives, it seems that S7 is tougher than 3v but doesn't have as good edge retention and has .70 manganese and .35 silicon which 3v doesn't have in it's composition at all.

My intention is to use this knife (4.75" blade) for chopping, batoning and the likes. What advantages does S7 offer other than superior toughness? Will I see a noticeable difference between S7 and 3V?

I know not all things being equal but if blade length, thickness, HT and geometry were identical, using these 2 different steels in the same application, would you say one would do the job better?

Will I be sharpening S7 after the first 10 minutes of use or can I expect it to hold up half the day or longer like 3v?

A lot of thoughts here and anything you have to say about this will be a help.
Click to expand...

I make knives out of both steels. In simple terms 3V is superior as far as wear resistance and corrosion resistance. As far as edge holding, I've had excellent results with both. 3V will hold an edge longer because of better wear resistance but S7 is no slacker holding an edge. You won't be re-sharpening alot. If you won't the ultimate in toughness go with S7. It's unbelievably tough.
Scott
 
I've used both steels quite a bit and I'd say 3V is the better choice based on your expected use... :thumbup:

To back up my statement, I have owned and used the following knives:

Scrapyard Dumpster Mutt
Scrapyard Son of Dogfather (3 of em!)
Scrapyard Dogfather

ZeroTolerance 0100
Spyderco TUFF

I've found the poor corrosion resistance of S7 to be the biggest difference or rather, the reason I'd go with 3V.
 
Gossman Knives said:
I make knives out of both steels. In simple terms 3V is superior as far as wear resistance and corrosion resistance. As far as edge holding, I've had excellent results with both. 3V will hold an edge longer because of better wear resistance but S7 is no slacker holding an edge. You won't be re-sharpening alot. If you won't the ultimate in toughness go with S7. It's unbelievably tough.
Scott
Click to expand...

This is from the guy that knows S7

Pure S7 Love:

s7_zpsbb6ba2e1.jpg
 
chiral.grolim said:
Everybody loves compar-o-graphs, right? ;) From Crucible: https://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/tooldie/t&dchemtbl.html
Click to expand...

Yes compar-o-graphs are lovely :thumbup:
This graph made me wonder about CPM1V, it seemed to have the same toughness but better wear resistance than S7 at the same HRC.
I looked for other graphs and they show CPM1V has a lower toughness than S7 ;)


Quote from osogrande knives: http://www.osograndeknives.com/catalog/blade-steels.html

CPM 1V Steel. CPM (Crucible Particle Metallurgy) 1V is a proprietary steel, very high toughness, several times higher than A2 with and same level of wear resistance. It is a medium carbon, high alloy tool steel which exhibits high toughness combined with high heat resistance. It is suited for hot or cold applications demanding high impact toughness that also requires moderate wear resistance. Carbon-0.55%, Chromium-4.5%, Vanadium-1.0%, Molybdenum-2.75%, Tungsten-2.15%, Rockwell 56-59,
Click to expand...
 
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