Saber one side, flat the other- anybody know why?

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When I noticed it on the Camillus, I made up some story why it would be better for skinning to be flat on the skin side and angled on the flesh side. But on the Ulster peanut? And I've never seen the flat and saber sides the other way round, which would be the left-handed version if there were a purpose.

I've seen the "Ideal" advertising knives stamped this way presumably for the sake of cheapness, but these have a grind separating the tang from the blade on the flat side.

I'm at a loss. Any ideas?

QJ2Gepiq
 
There are a lot of honest to Pete knife experts here, but I am not one of them. I just use 'em.

I can tell you though that in my opinion they were made as some special use knife for fine slicing and cutting. I have seen and used kitchen knives that were ground that way, and the knives were made to be used for sashimi prep and are a staple in some kitchens.

Another time I have seen that is at our local wood carvers club. They use the blade for detail work and planing cuts.

I don't know how that would work on a knife that looks to be a nice skinner, but someone surely bought it for a special task like removing meat from the bones when butchering in the field.

Robert
 
Interesting- thanks. The Camillus definitely came from the factory with an edge bevel on each side, but the Ulster could have started life chisel-edged for all I know.
 
Just a follow up. I was trying to remember what that Japanese style of knife was called so I looked it up on the Internet and found this from Mr. A.G. Russell on his site:

The Chisel Grind

"The chisel grind is a knife which is not ground at all on one side. So it is completely flat on one side, and has a bevel on the other. It is simple to produce (the maker need only grind one side), and simple to sharpen (it is sharpened on one side only, then the burr is stropped off the other side). It is also typically very sharp, due to the single bevel design. Whereas a blade ground on both sides might be sharpened at 20 degrees per side, for a total of 40-degrees edge angle, a chisel ground blade is often ground at around 30 degrees, making for a thin (and thus sharp) edge.

Accurate slices are very difficult with the chisel grind, due to the fact that the non-symmetrical design forces the knife to curve in the medium being cut."

A.G.R. had a quick, down and dirty explanation for all chisel ground knives. To me, they are useless on hunting knives, bushcraft knives, and pretty much all the others that have that grind. And one sided bevels do push the blade away from the grind side.

But... to expand a bit on that further:

The Japanese food prep knives have the grind on the side that corresponds to the user's preference of hand, and the flat side rides along the knuckles for extremely accurate thin slicing. The grind side simply shears away the material, rolling it away from the cut. Our local sushi/sashimi guys can cut a cucumber thin enough with one of their chisel ground knives to see light through very easily. Since I am right handed, the grind on your knives would be exactly the wrong side for me as I would be holding material with my left had and cutting with my right. In that case, AGR's words would be correct.

Robert
 
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Fascinating. I always wondered about chisel grinds, I had a chefs knife with a chisel grind and got rid of it because I couldn't chop stuff to my satisfaction. Turns out I just didn't know what I was doing. If I come across one again I might acquire it and endeavour to use it properly.

Paul
 
I'm a sushi chef and use single bevel knives.

They were meant only to slice, never chop.
 
Might that Ulster have actually been made by Camillus? Or vice-versa? (that is, might the Camillus pony jacks have been made on old Ulster tooling?)

I ask because I've got this rather similar looking Camillus pony-jack that has the same oddball grind -- sabre on one side, flat on the other (not that the picture shows it)


In fact, where your Ulster appears to have 83 stamped on it, my Camillus has '22' stamped.

I just chalked it up to oddball charm when I got it, but now I'm kind of curious...

--Mark
 
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Camillus made knives for just about every maker back in the day.
Camillus also made a lot of blades like the ones shown. Not sure why though.
 
Maybe I should ask this on the Camillus collectors forum. That skinner was made in living memory.
 
I know that if I had come across that knife I would have wanted it immediately. Left hand grinds are hard to find. I have a couple of customs made by Richard J with a similar grind and absolutely love it.
 
I see Richard J's skinners are right-handed if the bevel is on the left. From the array in Midnight's link it doesn't appear to be universal. Maybe it depends on the task? Maybe a matter of taste?
 
The way I see it, if you are cutting away from your body, the flat side should be closest to you. The bevel will angle the medium that you are cutting away from you. It works that way for me at least.
 
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