Safe and legal ways to open carry a fixed blade?

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KennyB

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Jan 19, 2010
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I kind of want to carry a fixed blade again. I use to carry one concealed, because I didn't see the point of relying on something for "protection" when it painted a target on my back, but then I discovered that it's illegal to carry a knife concealed in Washington state.

I've known for a while that open carrying is legal, but as I said, I've just always been concerned with open carry versus concealed carry. I feel like people can easily come up and grab it off of my side/back when carrying on a belt, and while I've never had a neck knife, I'd imagine that I would start to feel self-conscious about people's reactions to it.

I was thinking what if I could carry something on my hip that was covered by my shirt for the most part, but still somewhat visible at the bottom? Would that still count as concealment? I mean, the law reads, "...furtively conceals..." which kind of means "sneaky". So if I were to shove a boot knife under my pant legs, that would be furtive. In my opinion, having a T-Shirt cover up some grotesque knife handle isn't "furtive" seeing as there would still be a big sheath sticking out, but how does the law see it? Better yet, how would a criminal see it? Would my shirt be too much of a hindrance for them to want to try to steal it?

I've considered getting a concealed weapons permit, but it seems in my area that they only issue those licenses for firearms, not knives. I'm not really ready for a firearm at this point in my life, so what are my options?
 
Yup^, just carry the dam knife fisherman! Fixed blades are multi purpose tools in everyday use. I carry fixed blades all day long for opening boxes love letters, grocery, steak. etc. Carry something reasonable and practical.
 
I carry anywhere from 3 1/2" To 5 1/4" blades horizontal crossdraw everywhere I go here in Okla. never had a thing said to me. Sometimes however I will untuck my shirt over the 5 plus inchers in certain situations.....
 
I just looked at the Washington Knife Statute, nothing there about concealing a fixed blade or folder. Where exactly did you get your info.
 
Smash05 said:
I just looked at the Washington Knife Statute, nothing there about concealing a fixed blade or folder. Where exactly did you get your info.
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RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty — Exemption for law enforcement officers.


(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

(2) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to:

(a) The possession of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer while the officer:

(i) Is on official duty; or

(ii) Is transporting the knife to or from the place where the knife is stored when the officer is not on official duty; or

(b) The storage of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer.
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http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250

That's the only mention of concealment it makes, and now that I read it, it's kind of ambiguous. Does your standard hunting knife count as a "dangerous weapon" or are they trying to apply it to things like daggers and switch blades?
 
I think they are talking about dirks and daggers. Dangerous Weapons is too broad, and would likely be constitutionally impermissible. I think you are fine, just go about your business.
 
Smash05 said:
I think they are talking about dirks and daggers. Dangerous Weapons is too broad, and would likely be constitutionally impermissible. I think you are fine, just go about your business.
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Kind of unfortunate, the knife I wanted to carry is a dagger. Though it does seem like it's too broad. I haven't ever seen anything about length too, so it seems like I should be able to conceal carry a Buck 119?
 
i wouldn't be surprised if "dangerous weapon" DID include a normal fixed blade because, in my state (FL), it does. our statute defines any knife other than a common pocket knife a "weapon" and concealment laws apply. i know NOTHING of WA laws (their music's good though), i'm just saying the broad term MIGHT include all fixed blades, there too. as far as concealed goes - i, personally, would not push the whole it's not furtativ deal and think covering the handle was kosher because it probably isn't :( down here, that's concealed.
 
Missouri's statute is written rather similarly, dating back to a time when "daggers and dirks" were common. An Arkansas toothpick is a dagger...
I thought they would amend the statute when they were all revised about 10 years ago, but no such thing. Still mentions a "slung shot". Not something you see on the street much these days.
Anyway... For Pete's sake, bite the bullet and call the local prosecutor. When statutes are ambiguous, you have to go by what the prosecutors are actually doing with these cases.
If they are interpreting "Dirks and Daggers" as a particular type of knife, say a double-edged combat dagger, then perhaps you can get away with carrying a single-edged "hunting" knife.
Or perhaps not. Or not in the next city or county in your area. The local prosecutors are left with interpreting these statutes, and that's what you have to go with.
As an LEO, I would not recommend calling your local police station. You will either be read the statute, or the officer will fluff you off just to get rid of the question.
 
Kenny, if you can get a CWP, it should probably cover the knife carry too...does here in Montana
 
This is really a legal question, not a tactical problem so I moved it to Knife Laws. I suggest you do not go by information on any state other than Washington. Definitions and coverage differ by city in most places and certainly differ by state.
 
mwerner said:
Missouri's statute is written rather similarly, dating back to a time when "daggers and dirks" were common. An Arkansas toothpick is a dagger...
I thought they would amend the statute when they were all revised about 10 years ago, but no such thing. Still mentions a "slung shot". Not something you see on the street much these days.
Anyway... For Pete's sake, bite the bullet and call the local prosecutor. When statutes are ambiguous, you have to go by what the prosecutors are actually doing with these cases.
If they are interpreting "Dirks and Daggers" as a particular type of knife, say a double-edged combat dagger, then perhaps you can get away with carrying a single-edged "hunting" knife.
Or perhaps not. Or not in the next city or county in your area. The local prosecutors are left with interpreting these statutes, and that's what you have to go with.
As an LEO, I would not recommend calling your local police station. You will either be read the statute, or the officer will fluff you off just to get rid of the question.
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What would I need to do to ask to a prosecutor? Think there would be a consultation fee or something similar?
 
KennyB said:
What would I need to do to ask to a prosecutor? Think there would be a consultation fee or something similar?
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No. You can write a letter to both the prosecutor and and the state attorney general asking for an opinion on the definition of "dangerous weapon" as applied in the State of WA. They should answer you. You could also call and talk to a prosecutor, however I have found that most district attorney's are underpaid, overworked, and don't even answer the calls of defense attorney's who have business in front of the court.
 
Right. Prosecutors are public servants, as is the Attorney General of your state. Our county government has e-mail addresses listed for ALL public employees.
 
I carried a fixed blade for a number of years in WA, and never had an issue. "Furtively" basically means "suspiciously" in this context. If you just walk around with a reasonable, legal fixed blade knife on your belt, people and police could typically give a rip.

Just stay out of Seattle with it... :thumbup:
 
I decided to use Google to search the domain the RCW is hosted on for any page that mentioned "knife", and I found this...

RCW 9.94A.825
Deadly weapon special verdict — Definition.


In a criminal case wherein there has been a special allegation and evidence establishing that the accused or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime, the court shall make a finding of fact of whether or not the accused or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime, or if a jury trial is had, the jury shall, if it find the defendant guilty, also find a special verdict as to whether or not the defendant or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime.

For purposes of this section, a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used, is likely to produce or may easily and readily produce death. The following instruments are included in the term deadly weapon: Blackjack, sling shot, billy, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles, any dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife having a blade longer than three inches, any razor with an unguarded blade, any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club, any explosive, and any weapon containing poisonous or injurious gas.

[1983 c 163 § 3. Formerly RCW 9.94A.602, 9.94A.125.]
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It seems that this has more to do with sentencing though. For example, if I were to be charged and found guilty of assault, having a knife over 3" would constitute assault with a "deadly weapon"?

psychophipps,

How long was the knife, and did you carry it concealed? Also, which part of Washington? I live in Yakima which is a little bit more knife friendly than the west side, but we have some gang problems so the police might be a bit more biased toward seeing any kind of concealed fixed blade as a dangerous weapon.

I haven't gotten around to mailing anyone yet. I'm not exactly the most diplomatic or politically correct.
 
What does politically correct have to do with anything. Just ask the simple question, how does the State of Washignton define Dangerous weapon in relation to this statute? That's a simple objective question.
 
Smash05 said:
What does politically correct have to do with anything. Just ask the simple question, how does the State of Washignton define Dangerous weapon in relation to this statute? That's a simple objective question.
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Politically correct isn't really the right word, but I'm not sure how brief to make it. Somehow I just think sending a letter that simply asks only that question wouldn't really get an answer that would be any better than local LEO quoting statues. At least that's what my immediate presumption would be, having never written to a state attorney general or anything.
 
The cops typically don't know the law and want to issue citations so they can meet their quota the warp the law to fit the current situation i would know i have had a few run ins with washington police. They are all jackasses
 
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