Sal - very important pair of threads!

Jim March

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
3,022
US Customs has gone nuts and confiscated a large batch of CRKTs for being "gravity knives". I would think it would be to Spydie's benefit to get this cleaned up as fast as possible, before the trend spreads?

A suggestion: you're in Colorado, right? Send an urgent letter to Senator Ben Campbell, ask him to query customs about this BS, that'll get their attention. Ben is, among other things, a custom knifemaker and one of the most consistently pro-freedom people in DC today. Given Spyderco's size and importance to CO's economy, he'll at least listen.

If it works, it'll be a lot cheaper than throwing lawyers and money at the problem...
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum54/HTML/003361.html
http://www.knifeforums.com/ubb/Forum62/HTML/000681.html

Jim
 
Sal, mebbe stick some nice Spyderco linerlock made in Japan in with the package to Ben...it'll show him the general class of items we're talking about? Explain that you do R&D, customer service, marketing and distribution stateside but that much production is Japanese, and you could potentially be hurt...?

Jim
 
You know, that's a great idea. Tell us what happens Sal
smile.gif


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-Humpty

AKTI Member # A000984
Proverbs 23:2
 
Hi Jim. Thanx for thinking of us.

There is really not enough information at this time to take any kind of action. Seizures happen regularly. Sometimes they go one way, sometimes another.

It is possible that they will have it all sorted out by themselves quickly. Often the seizures are a mistake.

Spyderco has a good relationship with Customs, but we always try to comply with their requirements. We have even gone so as to check "legality" with Customs of certain models, such as the Civilian, before manufacturing the design.

As an aside, I not sure that we could do anything that they could not do as well. Spyderco is not much bigger (if an all) than Columbia River.

The difficulty here is that they went to the Oregon location. Why wasn't it stopped at the border? How many shipments are involved? Plus a host of additional questions.

Spyderco is not ready to "Go to war" with one of our Government agencies unless we are absolutely convinced that injustice has occurred. Even then, we would do our homework.

Remember, I was the fool that began the "collection" for a "poor forumite with a tumor".

I do appreciate your thinking of us and visiting our forum.

sal
 
OK, Sal, no sweat. We'll monitor developments.

BUT, knowing something about both yours and CRKT's product lines, if 90% of their product could be grabbed, yours isn't entirely safe either. And in Campbell, you have a major Fed legicritter who'd be willing to listen, and that Customs would pay attention to.

That's something CRKT lacks.

If this starts turning really sour for CRKT, we might ask you to reconsider. The time to put a halt to this sort of abuse is when it's *new*, not when it's "established practice". They may not get around to Spyderco for a LONG time but by the time they do, it'll be an unstoppable juggernaut of BS.

Thanx for at least listening,

Jim
 
Jim. Thanx for your understanding. We're not opposed, just cautious.

In reality, the question needs to be addressed. It is a 1958 law with no definite interpretation. But nobody wants to touch the issue.

I believe they will work it out.

We tried to get a difinitive ruling in Canada several years ago. We even built a machine to measure force required to open a knife. We asked for a measurement that we could build to. We could get no real answers.

There are many issues that are not apparent and "fear is the prime mover".

sal
 
With all due respect, and with all the good intentions stated in mind, this is a CRKT problem, NOT a Spyderco problem.

Spyderco does not need the US Government shining the light on them. The squeaky wheel may get the grease, but we know where the Govt. will put it.

Good business sense says they stay out of it. Besides less CRKTs sold = more Spyderco sold.

Sal, tell it like it is.

Selwyn
 
And if that be the case, then alot of people better gear up for American Production.

Chuck Buck stood up for everybody in California, because he knew that to not speak up would be the beginning of the end. This changed California Law, an amazing thing.

All manufacturers, and especially those who import knives, have an overwhelming interest to come to the aid of CRK&T, competitor or not.

Now, if some company only makes fixed blades, I guess that one they can stay out of.
biggrin.gif
 
If Spyderco asked Campbell to dig into this WITHOUT naming Spyderco as an interested party to Customs, Ben Campbell could be trusted to do just that.

I'll make sure we get regular status updates from CRKT. If they're *really* being screwed, Spyderco is in a unique position get Ben's help because they're in his district *and* potentially effected. And Ben Campbell is the perfect Senator to dig into this.

He's a custom knifemaker for God's sake
smile.gif
.

Jim
 
I take it when he switched from Democrat to Republican he left behind his gun control views Jim?

I know he voted for some in the past when he was a D.

As far as this is concerned, the knife community is in for a very hard lesson if they think they can appease the lion by throwing it meat.

Sooner or later, you run out of meat.

Take a lesson from the gun world, fight every law no matter how silly, stupid or "innocent" it appears to be.
 
His record did indeed improve over time, although I doubt the party switch was the key moment. His record was never very bad.

In any case, this isn't about guns. What Customs did was obvious idiocy, and it potentially hurts a fairly big company in his home state. As a bonus, it's an issue he's liable to show a personal interest in because of his hobby.

Look, this is how things work: if you're being screwed by a gov't agency, you can plead with your elected representatives, getting them to act as your advocate. The earliest US documents that refer to a "right to petition for redress" - this is EXACTLY what they were talking about.

Spyderco may not have to "go to war" over the issue. There's a fair chance ol' Ben will fight with little prodding and no fallback on Sal; everybody knows Ben is a knife knut, if he goes poking into this Customs probably wouldn't even guess he was "aimed".

It's perfect.

Jim
 
When they came for the communists, I said nothing;
When they came for the reporters, I said nothing;
When they came for the Jews, I said nothing;
When they came for me there was noone left.
Anon

As Benjamin Franklin said, Gentlemen, we must all hang together or we shall most assuredly all hang seperately.

If the Gov't seized all your stock, how long could you stay open to fight?
Sal, not to lay all this on you, we all should be calling out legislators, there are almost 8000 of us, But a very wise man once said, 'We get by with a little help from our friends."

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Although it does not mindfully keep guard in the small mountain fields, the scarecrow does not stand in vain
Bukkoku
 
Originally posted by Jim March:
His record did indeed improve over time, although I doubt the party switch was the key moment. His record was never very bad.

In any case, this isn't about guns. What Customs did was obvious idiocy, and it potentially hurts a fairly big company in his home state. As a bonus, it's an issue he's liable to show a personal interest in because of his hobby.

Look, this is how things work: if you're being screwed by a gov't agency, you can plead with your elected representatives, getting them to act as your advocate. The earliest US documents that refer to a "right to petition for redress" - this is EXACTLY what they were talking about.

Spyderco may not have to "go to war" over the issue. There's a fair chance ol' Ben will fight with little prodding and no fallback on Sal; everybody knows Ben is a knife knut, if he goes poking into this Customs probably wouldn't even guess he was "aimed".

It's perfect.

Jim
Click to expand...

It is very much about firearms, if you cannot see the parallel, then you need to take a step back.

This is a mindset in Government that has to stop.

The idea that somehow some way, an inanimate object can cause a crime. That's all...

And, if the knife community does not act, they will find themselves in the same mess as the gun community is in right now.
 
Selwyn. I did tell it like it was. There is not enough information at this time for anyone to do anything.

Spyderco has had shipments confiscated in the past. We worked it out with customs. We didn't call any other knife companies. If CRKT needs our help, they know they can call us, as can any knife company.

We're talking about a 1958 Switchblade law. It's going to take more than a little "grumbling" to affect that one.

BTW, It was Kathy at Spyderco that alerted Buck to the 653K ammendment in California and I know that Spyderco, as well as other knife companies helped foot the bill.

sal
 
Sal, as I said on the thread in the main forum, I *agree* it's too early to "go to war" or even drag Ben in. Some of what's being discussed on this thread is "general political theory".

Now is the time to watch developments, and especially to track how CRKT's initial efforts to deal with the jerks turns out. With any luck, in a few days this'll all blow over.

BUT, if not, "jumping in" seems like it's worth discussing.

------------

As a theoretical aside, while this is indeed a 1958 law with a lot of "prior momentum", this action by Customs is a radical expansion of that law. It's not going to be hard to argue that making instant felons out of literally millions of citizens shouldn't be left to the whim of a few bureaucrats.

Jim
 
Go to General, blade discussions, CRKT post on this subject.
BTTT

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Mark, Isiah 40:31 They that wait on the LORD shall mount up with wings as eagles...
 
Ok, I fully agreed that we should wait until there was some firsthand word on what actually happened before we declared war on Customs.

CRKT has posted Firsthand that U.S. Customs confiscated shipments of 50 Model Lines because they determined that LinerLocks violate the 1958 Switchblade law. They have also requested help from the Knife Community.

I believe that it is now time for the entire Knife Community to declare war on the wording in the 1958 Switchblade Law that is so generic that Customs could interpret it to cover Liner Locks.

If Spyderco has the potential ability to bring additional clout to this battle then I implore them to try.

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AKTI Member No. A000370
Email: DouglasSctt@Netscape.net
 
I heard today that Columbia River's product was returned today.

I was also informed that AKTI will try to use this opportunity to try to amend the "Switchblade" law.

If you are interested in helping, contact AKTI.

sal
 
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