Salt Bath Vs. Oven

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Oct 8, 2003
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so what are the pros and cons of either of these guys? is it true that you can't HT stainless in a salt bath? does anyone have any links to some salt bath dealers so i can check prices? also what are the pros and cons with electric and gas salt baths. thanks
 
HT Stainless in Salt Bath?

Sure, but it's a manly sport. Personally, I'd build a concrete bunker around it and use robots myself.

I'm very happy using an oven and foil. Plus I have all my original skin.

Steve
 
Don't listen to Steve, he's a girly-man ;)

Actually salt works very well for ss. The catch is getting a salt that is stable at ss heat-treating temps. You can get it from Heat-bath if they'll actually help you.

As far as pricing...about the only place that you can get one made with knives in mind is from Tim Zowada. He sells Even-Heat stacked kilns that heat salt.

Personally, I'd make one (that's what I did) with a gas forge for the heat-source and digital controls. This allows much faster heating yet is still very accurate. My salt rig holds temp within +/- 3 degrees F.

If you were to just have one though, and you're going to do ss, an oven probably would be your best bet. It will easily handle simple carbon steels as well.

Your best option? Have BOTH!!! :D

Nick
 
so nick do you have some good plans for me? thanks for the link dan. i'm mainly interested in the salt baths because of the acurate heat treat and the ability to "marquench" if i'm using the right term.
Nick: its only worth using salt if you have two baths one for hardening an one for tempering right?

thanks guys keep the opinions coming.
 
With the way energy prices keep going I'm thinking about a solar forge and solar ovens for bladesmithing. I haven't gotten propane for a few months but I'm almost afraid to find out what the price is now and all I hear is how much of a jump everything is taking. The little I know about salts for ht'ing is it requires a bunch of energy to get the temps you need.
 
Michael-

No, I don't feel that way. Just having a high temp rig is a wonderful tool. I austenitize blades in my high temp rig and quench in water, oil, and low temp salt.

The wonderful thing about salt is the very quick, even heating of your parts and the absence of atmosphere around your parts.

So if you're playing with steel with some alloy in it like 52100, O1, or L6, using the high temp and then quenching in low temp is a really good way to go. But even if you're using something as simple as W1 or 1095 (which I use a LOT of) you still get very accurate heat-treating by austenitzing in high temp salt and quenching in the medium you choose.

Sorry, I don't have plans to build one. I looked at Don Fogg's, Kevin Cashen's, Mike Starling's, and Jonathon Loose's online pics/drawings to figure out what I wanted.

Oh, and I'm sticking with that girly-man remark for Steve-a-Reno! ;)

Michael, if there's anything I can help you with on this just ask. They seem a little scarey at first, but are actually VERY simple to make and run. Just keep in mind they're VERY dangerous. Use proper precautions and respect and a salt bath will be one of the slickest tools you'll have.

Nick
nwheeler@bladegallery.com
 
awesome nick. i really appreciate your help. T-Blade is gonna help me with some supplies, and the burners are easy enough to make. all i need to buy is the temperature controlers.... any suggestions??
 
Michael-

As per controller...

I got the "Don Fogg package" from South Eastern Heaters that included a 93B controller, thermocouple, and quench-arc suppressor.

If I were to do it over again, I would probably go with Omega. I called Omega when I first started on my quest for a salt bath and talked with a fellow there named Frank. He was very helpful and eager to help. I ended up going with South Eastern because I knew the package Don uses had been proven to work.

However, South Eastern has not been very helpful when I had problems.

You can get controllers off of ebay for cheap, but you get no guarantee they'll actually work. I decided I'd rather pay more and know it would work.

I did buy a 110v solenoid valve off of ebay, brand-new in the celophane. It is a Dayton, 1/8" valve, normally closed with 1/4" fittings. It is a $70 valve, but I got it for $15 (actually two for that + s/h).

I originally thought the set-up was complicated, but it's actually very simple.

110v comes into the controller powering it, a K-type thermocouple in the salt reads the temp and sends it to the controller...the controller then tells the 110v solenoid whether to be open or closed to allow gas into the forge.

I built my salt rig with a blown forge, but they will work very well with simple venturi burners.

My low temp rig is a simple pipe burner (a 2 burner camp stove from HF, for $20) with a steel quench tank I built. I bought a heat-treating thermometer from Brownell's to monitor temp. This works well for things like camp knives. If you were doing things like swords (ala Kevin Cashen) I'd recommend a digitally controlled vertical tube.

:D Nick
 
Grasshoppa: You keep getting advised from guys that have 1-9 in their background. :D :D
NICK: What type of low-temp salts are using ???
 
here it goes IG. now that you posted on the thread you can consider it done.... no-one wants to post now that you got your mark on it! :D you got each and every one of them hiding from your insults :D :D ;)
 
IG, the low temp and high temp salts I got from Swain Spring shop in MT (i.e. Jeff Carlisle).

They are listed on the site that's linked off of D Fogg's links. I bought them in 1 gallon cans. If Heat-bath would actually ever talk to me I'd use some from them.

Yes...a 1-9 birthday...

But, mine is 1-9-78 which is 1978, so somehow this is some sort of code that means I will someday rule the world!!!! :D

Nick
 
here's another link I've found on salt pots
and what the salts comprise of :)
edited to add the link.. :(
http://www.mstarling.com/The_Craft/Tool_Plans/Salt_Pots/salt_pots.html
hey hey
I just found a gas valve with electronic pilot , but with the other
parts missing that's needed ,, still looking $150.00 unit for $35.00 New(not from the company ). :)
this one is for the manufactuer of the controls
http://www.robertshaw.com/cli-fam-ram.html

any one know about these?
I found the company on line
that makes these but waiting for them to get back to me..I hate waiting.. :(
at 24V this may be able to be a mobile unit too ;)
 
Yep, that's the exact package I bought.

It works very well in my salt rig.

I wasn't real happy with them when I had a problem and needed some new wire for my thermocouple...and they jerked me around for over a month before finally telling me they just couldn't get me any. I'm talking 3-6 feet of wire for a K-type thermocouple.

It's a small thing I suppose, but it really pissed me off. I finally found the wire at a ceramics shop. It makes NO sense to me how they can sell you the controller and the thermocouple, but no wire to go from one to the other.

Just something to keep in mind.

Nick
 
i found a good deal on ebay. an omega 76000 serries controller for $70.
all i need now is a thermocouple and a solenoid which i hear you can get pretty cheap. i'm happy now! time to save up for the rest of it!
 
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