San Mai, "3G", ZDP -- any difference?

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davmgt

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Sep 6, 2003
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A recent thread got me thinking. These are all Japanese laminated steels with some combination of 420 and VG10. Does anyone know if they are distinct? or, like Carbon V & CV, are they essentially the same steel with different names?
 
davmgt said:
A recent thread got me thinking. These are all Japanese laminated steels with some combination of 420 and VG10. Does anyone know if they are distinct? or, like Carbon V & CV, are they essentially the same steel with different names?
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San Mai is Cold Steel way to call laminated blades which may have something like AUS8 in core.
ZDP189 - is steel. sometimes they made laminated blades with ZDP189 in core and ATS34 on sides.
3G - is Fallkniven laminated blades with SGPS steel in core.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
davmgt said:
San Mai, "3G", ZDP -- any difference?A recent thread got me thinking. These are all Japanese laminated steels with some combination of 420 and VG10. Does anyone know if they are distinct? or, like Carbon V & CV, are they essentially the same steel with different names?
Click to expand...

Your thread title does not match the text of your question.

The current San Mai III from Cold Steel is laminated steel with a center of VG1.

Faulkniven sells several laminated bladed knives. One has a center of VG10. Another has a center of SGPS.

I have also seen laminated ZDP-189 blades.

None of these laminates is the same as any of the others because the inner alloy is different.
 
nozh2002 said:
San Mai is Cold Steel way to call laminated blades which may have something like AUS8 in core.
ZDP189 - is steel. sometimes they made laminated blades with ZDP189 in core and ATS34 on sides.
3G - is Fallkniven laminated blades with SGPS steel in core.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Thank! Very helpful. :thumbup:
 
Vassili and Knarfeng are correct. Cold steel's San Mai has been produced with cores of Aus8A, and VG1. I think way back it started out as some other, unnamed steel

ZDP has been laminated with 420j, ATS 34, and ATS 55 that I know of. It's ordered from the mill that way and made into knives by the companies that make the knives. Spyderco , and Kershaw have also ran it unlaminated. Kershaw as a sprint run, and Spyderco as a regular stock version of their delica and endura knives.

SPGS, in use by Falkniven stands for "super gold powder steel". There is a SG1, and a SG2, each differing slightly in composition. Falkniven uses VG2 to laminate theirs, and I think, but am not sure, Kai/Kershaw uses 420j as a laminate in their knives made with it.

Though a nice steel, the Cold steel laminate uses a much cheaper steel as a core than the ones that use ZDP, and Super Gold. Those are very expensive powder metal products with properties unavailable to steels not made using this method. Cold steel nevertheless gets pretty good performance out of their cheaper steel. VG1 is a good steel, but not in the class of Super Gold, much less ZDP 189.

Falknivens Laminates using VG10 as a base are also excellent , and probably considered a bit harder use than the higher priced, more exotic powder steels. The Powder steels are ran harder, with Super gold being advertised by Falkniven at RC 62, and Spyderco IIRC, at about RC65-66.William Henry has ran ZDP as high as RC 67

So, they are alike in some ways, but not in others. Super Gold and ZDP are both very wear resistant, good edge stability ( in comparison to other , large carbide stainless steels, but not to other classes of steels) stainless steels that are also lower in corrosion resistance than some other steels.If you like knives that cut a long time between sharpenings then these super steels are certainly one way to go.. Joe
 
Thanks for your helpful posts everyone. I've had great experiences with Fallkniven's 3G and was curious if these steels all came from the same supplier. It is interesting how many variations there are.
 
Thanks SPXtrader. It's amazing how much unimportant info I can fit in my mind. Unfortunately, Like Homer Simpson, when I learned that I forgot how to do Algebra. :o Room had to come from somewhere. :) Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Thanks SPXtrader. It's amazing how much unimportant info I can fit in my mind. Unfortunately, Like Homer Simpson, when I learned that I forgot how to do Algebra. :o Room had to come from somewhere. :) Joe
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According to latest research your brain is actually growing when you learning and you have more brain cells after you learn something...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
San Mai is Cold Steel's BS name for common laminated steel of dubious quality.
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The VG-1 steel at the core of Cold Steel's current San Mai laminate is produced by the same Japanese company that manufactures VG-10.

So I'd have to disagree that it's of "dubious quality".

Though it's not as fine a cutlery steel as ZDP-189, SG1 or SG2.
 
rifon2 said:
The VG-1 steel at the core of Cold Steel's current San Mai laminate is produced by the same Japanese company that manufactures VG-10.

So I'd have to disagree that it's of "dubious quality".

Though it's not as fine a cutlery steel as ZDP-189, SG1 or SG2.
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I wonder why only Cold Steel uses this "super-duper" VG-1, while no other quality knife manufacturer like Bechmade, Spyderco, Kershaw etc even touchs it.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
I wonder why only Cold Steel uses this "super-duper" VG-1, while no other quality knife manufacturer like Bechmade, Spyderco, Kershaw etc even touchs it.
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Because, while VG1 is a good steel, it doesn't hold an edge as long as VG10, SGPS, or ZDP 189.
 
I have all the "super steels" listed above, and a few others not listed here and I'll be the first one to agree with Sodak. It is a good steel. It takes a nice edge. It does what Cold Steel needs it too.

I wouldn't pay ZDP or Super Gold prices for it because it doesn't give their level of performance but I would and have paid Voyager prices. Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
I have all the "super steels" listed above, and a few others not listed here and I'll be the first one to agree with Sodak. It is a good steel. It takes a nice edge. It does what Cold Steel needs it too.

I wouldn't pay ZDP or Super Gold prices for it because it doesn't give their level of performance but I would and have paid Voyager prices. Joe
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Me too.

I have a Vaquero and 2 Scimitars (1 plain, 1 fully serrated), all 3 knives in VG-1. Based on using them, I think it's very, very good steel.
 
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