San Mai billets

S

Seffers93

Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
15
Hey everyone,

I just went and bought a cheap hydraulic press and a welder and also made a pretty good makeshift anvil. I have been dying to try out some San Mai.
My only question has to do with bar stock thickness. If I’m trying to draw out a San mai billet to around (or a little over) 1/8” thick for a 7” to 8” blade, what thickness/size should I start with for my three bar stock steels to stack and weld?
Not sure if it matters, but I’m planning on getting 15N20 and 1084 for the core.
Thanks
 
Seffers93 said:
Hey everyone, I just went and bought a cheap hydraulic press and a welder and also made a pretty good makeshift anvil.
Thanks
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You mention "Cheap hydraulic press" - what did you get? I've been drooling over the idea of getting a press myself, but just haven't been able to turn loose of the money...... yet {g}
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Generally, the san-mai cladding totals the same thickness as the one core piece. 1/8" san-mai and 1/4" core works.

What is your "cheap" hydraulic press?
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The press I got actually isn’t what I thought it was.. but I’m going to keep it anyway and see if I can customize it at all. It’s one of those cheap shop presses from Northern Tool. I guess that’s what happens when you don’t research and just impulse buy lol. I’ve seen some videos of people adding a pneumatic pump and making it work. It’s slow but oh well.

Also, thanks for the billet info. Much appreciated.
 
Those won't work for making san-mai or damascus. You need more speed and power. The HF/NT presses are pretty much junk. The tonnage stated is also not realistic. If you plan on doing san-mai and damascus, a Cold Iron press is a very good tool at a (somewhat) affordable price.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Those won't work for making san-mai or damascus. You need more speed and power. The HF/NT presses are pretty much junk. The tonnage stated is also not realistic. If you plan on doing san-mai and damascus, a Cold Iron press is a very good tool at a (somewhat) affordable price.
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Thanks again for the info. Did you happen to mean Coal Iron press? If so, those do actually seem somewhat affordable. Not outside of realistic spending. Time to start saving! I guess I’ll be hammering out San Mai billets. I’m not even entertaining Damascus until I get a decent press.
 
Stacy, not to hi-jack thread but would the 12 ton size Coal Iron press work for San Mia and some Damascus?

Does anyone have experience with the 12 ton press?
 
I know several FIF friends who use the 12 ton, and I have used it. It is a good press. They made swords and did well on FIF. The 12 ton runs on 120VAC, which is a bonus to smaller shops.
 
Thank you for the info Stacy - looking at the videos it looked like it would do a decent job, especially considering the price. Less than $4K delivered to home for a complete press package with a decent selection of dies isn't bad at all for a press.
 
Just a note on the 12 ton coal iron. I have one for my small shop, and when I bought it, $3k delivered made it an awesome deal! I can punch a hammer eye in one heat, draw out rr spikes into steak flippers in a heat, etc. Due to the speed of the machine, I would bet to say it keeps up with and exceeds many homemade higher ton presses that just don't have that ratio of speed and tonnage down. Where higher tonnage comes into play, such as with the Coal Iron 16 or 24 ton, is being able to move more work as the material gets colder. This can become apparent when trying to fuller out parts of a hammer or axe, but for a knife maker making a billet of Damascus with drawing dies, this machine works incredibly well (I'm sure you've seen their videos)! Plus, if you have a small shop like me, it is easily stored on a rolling high lift cart or with the controls mounted under the machine to take up less space.
 
Thanks for that detailed report. Reading that sure does make it hard not to order one, then check my bank acct..... and mostly just not sure how much I'd actually use it since I work with SS and stock removal mostly. Only some San Mai and Damascus. That press surely would be nice for the canister I'd like to do with the meteor bits I've got. Again, not to make a better blade, just a "neat" blade {g}
 
A Bladesmith who I work who has the next size up says it’s not great for thinner san Mai billets. Doesn’t compress thin enough.
 
I wonder if you could make your own dies to solve that issue? I’m not too familiar with presses in general so I have no clue if that would work lol.
But it sounds like my piggy bank is going to be emptied to get one of those presses. Although I really need a new belt grinder...
 
Seffers93 said:
I wonder if you could make your own dies to solve that issue? I’m not too familiar with presses in general so I have no clue if that would work lol.
But it sounds like my piggy bank is going to be emptied to get one of those presses. Although I really need a new belt grinder...
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Possibly. Idk. He’s capable of doing that so I’m not sure what the problem is exactly. I can put u in touch with him if u like
 
I don't see how the thinness could be an issue. We have pressed stuff down to crazy thin in making some things. Maybe he needs different dies.

TIP:
Make up a set of thickness gauges from plain welding stock ( A-36, 1005, 1018, etc.). They don't need to be precise, just in a range. Say 1/2, 3/8, 1/4, 3/16, 1/8. Use 6"X1" strips and bend them to fit on the lower die. Just set the one you want on one side of the die. it will act as a thickness stop when doing final drawing/pressing of stock.
 
Another thing to help with pressing thinner if using the flat dies is to feed only a small portion of the billet in at once (i.e., don't use the full width of the die surface). For example, if the billet is only between the first 1/4" of the dies, the tonnage will press that down easier and thinner since there is less surface area to resist the force
 
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