San Mai III - Need info

A

almtiba

Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
468
Hi folks !

Can somebody tell me about Cold Steel San Mai III ?

I'd like to know some more about this steel.

Any experiences and info to share ?

Thanks in advance,

Andre Tiba
 
I don't know too much about the San Mai that CS uses, but I do know what it means. San Mai can be transalated into 'three layers'. Basically, you have a soft steel as a core being sandwiched with harder steel. The purpose is to add the 'flexibility' of the knife thus preventing it from breaking. That is the theory from japanese sword. I think CS is using the same method for the same purpose. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
The hard, edge holding steel is the ‘meat’ of the sandwich. The softer, tougher, more flexible steel is the ‘bread’. I’m not sure what steels they use.
 
Almtiba,

Beluga is correct in his definition of San Mai III. I have two of Cold Steel's tantos, the Magnum Tanto II, and the Magnum Tanto XII. Both are outstanding blades. Very sharp, resilient, tough, and FAST! 7 1/2" and 12" respectively in blade length, they're what I tend to think of as "legacy" knives- blades that you can hand down to your kids, and know they're not "junk." Personally, I prefer the Magnum Tanto XII to a Warrior O Tanto, though the latter is heavier... Why? The San Mai III Magnum Tanto is just that- a tanto point, reinforced in construction, able to pierce sheet steel, without damage... The O Tanto is not so constructed, but is of the traditional tip instead... For a combat blade, the San Mai III Magnum Tantos are superior... Which would you rather have? Tradition? Or tactical superiority? If it ain't practical, it ain't tactical... But for cost, I'm sure that Mr. Thompson of Cold Steel would be delighted to have his fixed blades all made of San Mai III. Remember, you get what you pay for... San Mai costs more, but it's worth it... I just wish he'd made the Laredo Bowie in San Mai III... THAT would have been truly awesome...

Regards and Respects,
Carter, oldpaladin, out...
 
Apparenly, the Japanese Sanmai is different from American San Mai. In Japanese sword, the inner steel (shingane/the meat) is the softer steel. The outer steel (kawagane/the bread) is the hard one.

I researched more about it, and ookpik is also right. In Americanized San Mai, the hard steel is the core and the soft steel is the jacket. Really weird. It means that the outer steel would be vulnerable to scratch / dings. I don't know the reason.
 
For a knife blade you would want the center piece of steel, with the actual cutting edge, to be hard. That way the blade would stay sharp longer. The two outside supporting pieces of steel could be softer, tougher, and more flexible. The theory is that the blade would have the edge holding of the hard, brittle steel and the toughness and flexibility of the softer steel. Only testing would tell. The considerations may be different for a sword or combat blade.

Edited to add:
Thanks beluga. I didn’t know that about Japanese swords. Maybe you don’t want the edge of a sword to be too hard. Maybe the hard outer layers provide protection from damage. I don’t know much about swords. :confused:
 
I believe the japanese sanmai uses four pieces, with the back of being soft and having two medium side pieces and a hard front piece. Oo, found this page http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/laminate.htm has the basics of Japanese laminating technologies. Wow, one of the methods has SEVEN pieces? That's wild.
 
Thanks for the inputs, guys !

I knew about that sandwich thing. What I wanna know is what steels are used as soft and hard layers.

Any idea ?

I often go to the woods, where I can use my bowies, and comparing the two trailmasters (Carbon V and San Mai III), I can't see much difference in edge retention. But the San Mai is realy more difficult to get sharp...

Thanks again,

Andre Tiba
 
Almtiba,

I read somewhere (and this is a RUMOR, nothing else) that Cold Steel uses many suppliers, and hence, many alloys. The steel they use, or their Japanese or Chinese manufacturers use, must meet certain guidelines.

For example, their Trail Blazer has been made from lots of alloys. However, Cold Steel has a heat-treating process that these manufacturers must meet and use.

Consider this, suppose you want me to build you a motorcycle, and your standards are that it must achieve 100 MPH in 11 seconds and it must be a Harley.

I might use a bored out, cammed Sportster engine, I might use a large cube Evo big-twin, or I might try a V-Rod.

You could then confidentally report that you own a Harley, and it meets your standards. The details may change.
 
Well, from way back when there was a CS forum, I'm pretty sure they said San Mai was 420 on the outside and Aus-8 in the center.
 
From what I have heard, DaveH is right. Centre steel us AUS-8, while the side pieces are 420j2.

I think one must be careful when calling any laminate a "san mai" laminate. You can run into trouble when describing all Japanese blades that way, as seen above! Japanese blades often have a soft core and hard jacket steel. The hard outer layer (which is quite thick) forms the edge and sides and back I believe, while the soft core allows for flexibility. But then you can have 2 soft side plates with a hard centre piece that forms the edge (true san mai). But you can have an edge piece, 2 side pieces, and a back piece, all different steel compositions and hardnesses (this wouldn't be san mai, as it it is 4 layers).
 
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