Sand paper only sharpening? What grit(s)?

C

CubeLW

Joined
Jul 16, 2014
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Leather strops are out of the question for now (don't like waiting on anything that ain't a knife). I heard of the sand paper and mousepad method but don't know the grits to use. Can the blade get shaving sharp? Kinda messed the edge up on my BVCAK cause I used a kitchen sharpener on it (the long metal rod type. It gets my other blades waaaaay sharp but forgot it wasn't for convex grinds).On a side note, what type of edge does the metal rod sharpener sharpen? Thanks
 
I used a leather stop by bark river company I also use their green and black compound and it creates a razors edge. The sandpaper method definitely works well just make sure you use a light touch. I prefer using a phonebook or other large catalog over the mouse pad method. Some mouse pads are to soft and you can actually dull the edge if you use to much pressure. I start with 600 grit if it needs a lot of sharpening. I then use 1000 then 1200 then 1500. It puts mirror finish on the edge that is really cool. Don't use the 600 unless its really dull. Make sure you follow the angle of the convex. Once you have the angle right and can actually feel the edge "grabbing" the paper. You know when your doing it right because it feels "right". I use water on the final 1500 grit paper to really bring out the shine. Stick with the finer stuff and just take your time, like I said I prefer stropping which I find very relaxing. I do it while I watch TV. I always end up with a razor blade after an half hour or so, but compound makes all the difference in the world.

Oh.. don't use a metal rod, a ceramic rod is much better than metal or chefs steel. Go from the bolster to the tip.
 
gurkha berserka said:
I used a leather stop by bark river company I also use their green and black compound and it creates a razors edge. The sandpaper method definitely works well just make sure you use a light touch. I prefer using a phonebook or other large catalog over the mouse pad method. Some mouse pads are to soft and you can actually dull the edge if you use to much pressure. I start with 600 grit if it needs a lot of sharpening. I then use 1000 then 1200 then 1500. It puts mirror finish on the edge that is really cool. Don't use the 600 unless its really dull. Make sure you follow the angle of the convex. Once you have the angle right and can actually feel the edge "grabbing" the paper. You know when your doing it right because it feels "right". I use water on the final 1500 grit paper to really bring out the shine. Stick with the finer stuff and just take your time, like I said I prefer stropping which I find very relaxing. I do it while I watch TV. I always end up with a razor blade after an half hour or so, but compound makes all the difference in the world.

Oh.. don't use a metal rod, a ceramic rod is much better than metal or chefs steel. Go from the bolster to the tip.
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Sweet, thanks for the answer. Guess i'm gonna go over to home depot and buy all that sand paper! Gonna have to get a ceramic rod as well eventually. Gotta find a phone book as well lol, I had like 10 but I think they might have bern thrown out
 
GB got the sandpaper answered there will probably be at least as many combinations of grits as you recieve answers though so be prepared.

So I will answer the second question sort of. You have a chef's steel. IF it is an old one that is smooth, it is probably actually a honing steel used for re-shaping the blade and basically pushing the edge back to straight. If you have a steel that has ridges in it running lengthwise it is probably from the 1980-ish timeframe and it is actually wearing away a bit of the steel to sharpen by creating a secondary bevel, if you have a steel that is newer and smooth it is probably diamond embedded and doing the same with the secondary bevel thing. Then came the ceramics that GB mentions that also do the bevel thing. The problem with this form of "light" sharpening is 2 fold. 1 is that it is very difficult to maintain a standard angle while using it so your secondary bevel is all over the place. Not conducive to razor sharp and 2 the different steels used in blade making these days vs historically. For instance in the US blades made for butchers tend to be tempered softer because the tradition is to "hone" them (the term is still used though it is actually a minor form of sharpening) throughout the day. Where as in Asia butcher's blades are tempered harder and then sharpened less often perhaps weekly on a waterstone. So the short answer is. It depends on the chef's steel you have whether you are truely honing the blade or actually sharpening it in a fairly random very imprecise way but unless your sharpening steel is fairly old OR made in asia you are probably creating a secondary bevel.
 
CubeLW said:
Leather strops are out of the question for now (don't like waiting on anything that ain't a knife). I heard of the sand paper and mousepad method but don't know the grits to use. Can the blade get shaving sharp? Kinda messed the edge up on my BVCAK cause I used a kitchen sharpener on it (the long metal rod type. It gets my other blades waaaaay sharp but forgot it wasn't for convex grinds).On a side note, what type of edge does the metal rod sharpener sharpen? Thanks
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Go to the closet and get out an old belt. You know. The one you have been telling yourself will fit again if you lose those few Lbs.

in 20 years of knife sharpening & making I have never purchased a leather strop. Old belts, The wide leather strap off of one of those ladies 70-80's hippieish purses works great.

Cruise some goodwill & Salvation army stores if need be for old belts and suitable pieces of leather that can be repurposed for a few dollars.
Stop by a local shoe cobbler and ask him what scraps of shoe leather he may have?

Plain old cardboard works well too! I had a buddy that would strop on his leg while wearing jeans of course. So Denim works as well.


Shavu,
is correct on butchers steels. I have an old one. "Smooth" is what you want. I also take the new ones with the heavy filing lines in them and polish them out to 600 grit for my customers. You are Honing or realigning the edge with these.

Sandpaper on a cushion of newspaper or a pad works well. Start at about 220 grit from the file type butchers steel. Then double your grits or as close to it as possible. I suggest. 220-400 and then 600 or 800 grit to finish then strop on leather for a field use blade.
 
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If your metal rod sharpener is a honing steel, it's not really sharpening the blade; honing steels push the damaged edge back into place, and while this is fine in the short term, it weakens the metal and that edge will degrade faster than before (think about bending a paper clip or soda can back and forth until it weakens and breaks).

As for the wet/dry sandpaper method of sharpening convex edges, this does work and it's rather easy to do. You can find all sorts of grits in the automotive section of Walmart or other stores like it, typically from 320 all the way up to 2000. As for what grits to use, it depends on the steel and how much metal you need to remove from the edge. I've convexed the edge of a flat ground VG-1 blade before using 320 grit and then moved up to 400, 800, 1200, 1500, then 2000, but again, it depends on your specific use case and how much you want to spend.
 
Most hardware stores (home depot, Lowes,etc.) don't have the wet/dry paper your looking for. Auto parts stores almost always do.
 
ndoghouse said:
Most hardware stores (home depot, Lowes,etc.) don't have the wet/dry paper your looking for. Auto parts stores almost always do.
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Always auto parts, especially the ones for body shops. They'll also have the fine grit ones as well.
 
While Calc is correct technically, I also feel he is wrong in a sense. If you are sharpening instead of honing you are taking off steel far faster than it will deteriorate by honing. So I hone when the problem is a blade than needs re-alignment instead of sharpening the offending metal that is misaligned off.
 
Thanks for all the tips people. Problem is, I am the worst sharpener in all of humanity. I tried belt strops and now sandpaper and my knife is so dull I can safely slash myself and not even feel it. I've turned my knife into a spoon lol
 
Au contraire weedhopper, I'm the worst sharpener in all of humanity but I keep trying. The sandpaper mouse pad combo does indeed work if you keep plugging away at it. Don't overthink it and remember your not launching it to the moon so it ain't rocket science although the guys that are good at it are definitely magicians.

I'd like someday to send my IBBB off and get it razor sharp to start and then try to just maintain it.

In all seriousness, a knife is just like a chainsaw chain, the best way to keep it sharp is not to let it get dull. In my chainsaw running days, one thing I do seriously miss I touched up my chain all day long and even with my little Echo saw I could cut circles around the big boys.

Same with a knife, touch it up often.

One of my favorite scenes from the greatest western ever made ''Lonesome Dove" was when the cook is sharpening his knife and Newt ask whats wrong with the knife that he has to sharpen it every night. His reply is a knife is like a wife, you need to stroke it a little bit every night.

Words to live by. Now if I could just figure out how to sharpen a knife correctly.
 
Bawanna said:
Au contraire weedhopper, I'm the worst sharpener in all of humanity but I keep trying. The sandpaper mouse pad combo does indeed work if you keep plugging away at it. Don't overthink it and remember your not launching it to the moon so it ain't rocket science although the guys that are good at it are definitely magicians.

I'd like someday to send my IBBB off and get it razor sharp to start and then try to just maintain it.

In all seriousness, a knife is just like a chainsaw chain, the best way to keep it sharp is not to let it get dull. In my chainsaw running days, one thing I do seriously miss I touched up my chain all day long and even with my little Echo saw I could cut circles around the big boys.

Same with a knife, touch it up often.

One of my favorite scenes from the greatest western ever made ''Lonesome Dove" was when the cook is sharpening his knife and Newt ask whats wrong with the knife that he has to sharpen it every night. His reply is a knife is like a wife, you need to stroke it a little bit every night.

Words to live by. Now if I could just figure out how to sharpen a knife correctly.
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Words to live by...
 
So this is the most recent thread on sharpening a kukri, and I've now got a Suga and a WWII, but no idea how to sharpen them. This is actually something that has plagued me with all my knives, I've never gotten a shaving edge on them, and I can never tell if I'm actually getting them sharper. But in particular I'm trying to get my Suga a little bit sharper. I've run a chakma over it, and I also own a set of Lansky stones, but I don't know if those will do the job on a convex edge, and I'm not sure if I really did anything when I used the chakma.
 
A good thread (among others) from the Link Library sticky:

killa_concept said:
Anything made of suitable metal can be made sharp enough to shave. My 15" 1/2" thick Ang Khola, 18" 1/2" thick Bhojpuri and 18" 7/16" thick M-43 can all shave hair off my legs... hell, even my camp ax (which I don't use anymore) could shave

You can set up a cheap convex sharpener by tacking or taping sandpaper to a mousepad and putting that on a flat surface. The only thing you'll probably need to pay for in this setup is the sandpaper: a 3M assorted wet/dry pack ( sheets of 220, 400, 800, 1000 grits) only costs $5ish. Sharpen the blade at roughly 18ish degrees per side without adding too much pressure onto the blade - the give of the mousepad will convex the edge with a ~21ish degree final angle. Do all the work (this means creating a bur) with 220 grit - only use the higher papers to refine/polish the edge you establish. Once you finish with the 1000 grit, use an old leather belt to strop the bur off - be sure to keep the belt taught and to use minimal pressure!

For the basic technique using the above method, check out this video. Remember he's only refining the convex edge - not establishing one. The technique is the same though, you just need to start at 220 and remember not to move on to higher grits until you can feel the bur you've created using 220! If you move on too early, you'll just find yourself with a dull (albeit shiny) edge!


You can see my setup in the background of this picture - I'm too lazy to snap another one:
P1020331.jpg


Here's the end result of your efforts - My m43 can shave with ease and still hit a tree full force without any visible edge damage:
P1020334.jpg
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/686410-Simple-way-to-put-a-convex-edge-on-a-CAK?highlight=sharpening
 
Ah, perfect. Now to make a visit to a few stores for supplies; I'm nearly out of milk. Oh and sandpaper, need to buy that too.
 
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