Sandvik 14C28N vs. ...

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Sid Post

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I am starting to see a mixture of 14C28 knives, mainly small fixed blades, and I began to wonder why I don't see more of them? This seems to be along the lines of AEBL when both are heat-treated well but, they seem to get very little traction in the marketplace.

Is it just marketing or am I missing something more basic like steel costs or manufacturing costs? Specifically, I'm seeing some relatively nice knives out of the EU at modest price points (~$40USD). FWIW, I'm waiting for a little ~4" fixed blade from Joker out of Spain to arrive in 14C28. My AEBL Gyuto was a nice knife but, it was a bit soft so it didn't really work for me in the kitchen.

TIA,
Sid
 
14C28N is a very good all-around steel. It's tough, easy to sharpen, takes a very good edge, and holds it acceptably well. I've been carrying a folder in 14C28N for the last couple of years, I'm not looking to replace it anytime soon. AEB-L is almost identical to Sandvik 13C26, both are considered above average in performance. 14C28N is supposed to be an improvement, and, by all indications, a successful one.

Heat treatment has more to do with performance than steel type, but the Sandvik alloys are generally considered to be quite good.
 
It isn't considered a 'super steel' so makers using it don't have any buzzwords to throw around! Renowned knife designer Blackie Collins was a fan of Sandvik alloys for their fine grain structure, ease of achieving a good heat treatment, and overall balance of properties considered important in blades. He did tell me that 12C27 can be difficult to get a good mirror finish, like some other stainless alloys, as it tends to "orange peel" during buffing. Aside from that minor quibble, he thought it one of the best budget steels available. I think he'd have found 14C28N a worthy improvement.
 
In my experience, 12C27 is okay and 14C28N is great for fixed blades. Yeah, there are plenty of steels with better edge retention. Among budget steels at least, the edge retention of 14C28N is pretty good. It's easy to sharpen. It has good corrosion resistance. It's also one of the toughest stainless blade steels. It's a great all-rounder that will perform well for a significant portion of users.

There are lots of custom knife makers who still use AEB-L. A main benefit of 14C28N over AEB-L is increased corrosion resistance. Unfortunately, it seems that 14C28N isn't widely available to individual makers. I recently tried to commission something in it and the maker couldn't get it.

Meanwhile, it seems to be catching on with Chinese companies. From Civivi to Sanrenmu, it has been showing up in a lot of budget folders. Ruike and Real Steel (which might be made by Sanrenmu) both use it in a few fixed blades. The Jager is probably my favorite.


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Voted best budget steel by Knifesteelnerds.

And in the chart it is actually pretty TOUGH! score of 9. And corrosion resistent. Only negative was lower edge retention. But it prob is better for great toughness and stainless with needing a strop or sharpening, vs chipped or broken blade.
 

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Kind of a shame that this steel was created for Kershaw and now they are using 3,5&8C type steel for blades for the uninformed masses who throw away dull knives😥😢...

Damn solid performing steel......
 
NJCutter said:
Voted best budget steel by Knifesteelnerds.

And in the chart it is actually pretty TOUGH! score of 9. And corrosion resistent. Only negative was lower edge retention. But it prob is better for great toughness and stainless with needing a strop or sharpening, vs chipped or broken blade.
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Lower is relative. Remember that heat treatment matters and Larrin's steel ratings are based on his heat treatment. For instance, how many production knives in M390 live up to their potential for edge retention? How many of the Chinese budget knives in D2 get anywhere close to either Larrin's rating or the much more expensive American knives in D2 that built that steel's reputation? While I've had AUS-8 that performs relatively well in knives like the Rat 2, I've never had 8Cr13Mov that impressed me (and I've had a lot of it over the years).

This where 14C28N often seems better than Larrin's ratings would suggest. Even when run soft on a $30 knife, it still seems to hold a reasonable edge versus the alternatives.
 
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I also have the Ruike Jager and am always on the lookout for decent knives in this steel. Don't know why makers don't use it more for larger fixed blades as it's very tough as others have said sharpens up well and holds an edge well enough. I personally love it use and sharpening wise.
 
I love them and am glad to see Sandvik getting more popular. 12C27 has been common in traditional knives in Europe for a long time and Kershaw always has Sandvik options, and now that Kershaw has moved to 8Cr and 7Cr and such for budget knives I'm glad to see Civivi etc. offering it on relatively cheap knives.

Not much carbide volume, but great toughness and edge stability. I like thin blades that sharpen easy and don't chip so Sandvik steels are the ideal (though I haven't tried 19C27).

Other than Magnacut maybe, but that's still far from common.

Consumers still like thick blades and absolute maximum wear retention to avoid sharpening, the real benefit is for thin edges which are rare on production knives. Maybe part of why
 
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14c28 is a great steel. It’s not as easy as snapping your fingers and saying “lets make all our knives out of 14c28” though. I remember a manufacturer was asked In an interview why they don’t do more knives in sandvik steel, and it’s because Sandvik doesn’t have the capacity. Most of Sandviks resources are devoted to fulfilling deals with shaving companies, very little is left over for knife companies.
 
Hashishiin said:
I like all the Sandvik series. Got a Douk-Douk in 14c28n, some Ruikes... Opinel and Vic uses Sandvik steel to my understanding. Great stuff!
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The stainless Opinels use a modified version of 12C27 with even less carbon. They run it soft. These were knives meant for the common man from another time, before regular dudes quested for super steel in their "EDC". This was stuff that you could sharpen quickly and easily at home without fancy equipment. It cuts well when sharp because it is nice and thin.

The Victorinox knives use something else. It isn't great and since this is the modern age, I wish they'd upgrade. Heck, I wish both of these companies would offer models in genuine 14C28N at respectable hardness. In the meantime, you can find non-modified Sandvik steels on some of the Sanrenmu-made SAK alternatives (Ruike, Boker, etc.).
 
Chronovore said:
The stainless Opinels use a modified version of 12C27 with even less carbon. They run it soft. These were knives meant for the common man from another time, before regular dudes quested for super steel in their "EDC". This was stuff that you could sharpen quickly and easily at home without fancy equipment. It cuts well when sharp because it is nice and thin.
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Good description, these are the kinds of steels that'll show you what you need, or don't. I prefer the carbon Opinel, myself. But a good everyman's steel - something I will never scoff at. Opinel increases pleasure of cheese-eating, as an additional benefit.
Chronovore said:
The Victorinox knives use something else. It isn't great and since this is the modern age, I wish they'd upgrade. Heck, I wish both of these companies would offer models in genuine 14C28N at respectable hardness. In the meantime, you can find non-modified Sandvik steels on some of the Sanrenmu-made SAK alternatives (Ruike, Boker, etc.).
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That's why I want to put a K390 Dfly wharncliffe blade in my SAK, man, it's going to be awesome! But I will say the Sak steel is a pleasure to get shaving sharp.

+1 for these upgrades, Douk-Douk seems to be the only ones who did the upgrade, as mentioned in their 14c28 models. Wonder what stainless Mercator uses.
 
When did Douk-Douk upgrade to 14C28N?? What HRC? I see the message on their webpage now, I had no idea they switched. Very very cool. I just picked up a Boker Atlas in 12C27 because I considered it a significant upgrade over a Mercator or Douk-Douk, too.

Edit: Their website says 50-53 HRC, I wonder if that's possibly true after they switched steels. That'd be quite the waste. Maybe just forgot to update that value.
 
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Carboniferous said:
When did Douk-Douk upgrade to 14C28N?? What HRC? I see the message on their webpage now, I had no idea they switched. Very very cool. I just picked up a Boker Atlas in 12C27 because I considered it a significant upgrade over a Mercator or Douk-Douk, too.

Edit: Their website says 50-53 HRC, I wonder if that's possible true after they switched steels. That'd be quite the waste.
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Yeh that seems too soft. Maybe they forgot to heat treat?
 
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