Sandvik steel and reps at Blade Show

Larrin

Larrin

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
5,048
Sandvik will be at the Blade Show talking about their 13C26 and 19C27 stainless steels that they are trying to bring to the custom knife market. They're doing a seminar on Saturday at 1:30 p.m and will be at the Admiral steel table during the show. 13C26 is the carbon steel of stainless steels, with super fine carbide and grain structure, something that hasn't been available in stainless, this stuff is as fine as 52100, CPM steels are much more coarse. 13C26 is perfect for anything with an extremely thin geometry (like kitchen knives or thin folders), a knife that primarily push cuts, or anyone who likes a steel that is extremely easy to sharpen. Also, even though the carbon is fairly low, it can easily be hardened to 63+ Rc.

19C27 is a high wear resistance steel, it is an upgrade over 440C and 154CM, IMO, and should be in the same price range, so it's kind of a steel for someone looking for an upgrade on 440C and 154CM but don't want to spend the extra dough on CPM-154. 19C27 is probably better than CPM-154 in some categories. 19C27 does have some larger primary carbides (unlike 13C26), but in a much lower volume than CPM-154, 440C, or 154CM. 19C27 is perfect for anything that primarily slices such as a hunting knife. I would liken the properties of 19C27 to VG-10, a steel some American makers have been interested in because of its popularity with Spyderco knives.

They will have 13C26 in pieces at .130" and .105" at 4"x12". The word is the 19C27 in knife sizes hasn't come in yet, so it won't be available at the show. :(

I'm really excited that these steels will be readily available, so I thought I would share with everybody.
 
Larrin, how would you compare the ductility of 13C26
to something like 1095 or carbon steels in general.
Would it make a good large fixed blade?

I have one 13C26 knife and I love the steel. The blade is way
to thick but it's a high flat grind and can live with it as is.
It gets amazingly sharp relatively easily.
 
msiley said:
Larrin, how would you compare the ductility of 13C26
to something like 1095 or carbon steels in general.
Would it make a good large fixed blade?

I have one 13C26 knife and I love the steel. The blade is way
to thick but it's a high flat grind and can live with it as is.
It gets amazingly sharp relatively easily.
Click to expand...
AEB-L matches or slightly exceeds the general toughness of steels like 1095, 52100, and A2.
 
There is materials data to support the toughness statement and the wear resistance of 19C27 over 154CM?

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
There is materials data to support the toughness statement and the wear resistance of 19C27 over 154CM?

-Cliff
Click to expand...
Toughness comes from Roman Landes, he shows in his book that AEB-L has greater toughness than 52100, though a lot of those comparisons in the back are theory, according to him. I didn't say that 19C27 has higher wear resistance than 154CM. I did say that 19C27 is an upgrade over 154CM, I'm sorry that was unclear. My saying it is an upgrade over 440C and 154CM is just my opinion. I do think that 19C27 might have greater edge retention than 154CM, but I don't think that it would have greater wear resistance. This is using examples from Phil Wilson and Wayne Goddard where they found that an extremely high wear resistance steel like D2 didn't cut any better than a lower wear resistance 440C if they were both 58-59 Rc. Look at the S90V patent which has some wear resistance, numbers, D2 has crazy good wear resistance, but CPM-154 and S30V both outcut it considerably in Phil's testing because of smaller carbides. I would expect the carbide structure of 19C27 to be similar to the 1.4111 steel in Roman's book, maybe with less carbide volume. Roman shows in his book that the 1.4111 steel is better in every category over RWL-34. I am assuming that 19C27 would act similarly due to an assumed similar carbide structure. This is how I draw most of my conclusions. :D
 
Larrin said:
I did say that 19C27 is an upgrade over 154CM, I'm sorry that was unclear.
Click to expand...

In terms of a general sense, yeah, I can see that. But for the very thick edges tacticals, steels like ATS-34 will have their place.

I would really like to see that group of steels (Sandvik) more used here. It is kind of amusing that steels like 52100 are really well regarded but then 12C27M is a "low end" steel.

Have you used 19C27 much?

This is using examples from Phil Wilson and Wayne Goddard where they found that an extremely high wear resistance steel like D2 didn't cut any better than a lower wear resistance 440C if they were both 58-59 Rc.
Click to expand...

THis is because of the stopping point chosen. You have to be very careful when making such statements. Note that AEB-L will do very well in the short term but will not compare well in the long term when the edge thickens through blunting and becomes stable inherently due to geometry. Thus it is either low or high in edge retention depending on where you are going to sharpen, then there are angles, push/slice, grit, etc. .

-Cliff
 
I have never used 19C27, my father has made blades using 19C27/302 damascus.

I'm familiar with the stopping point, I like that stopping point a lot, though lots of people use their knives when practically dull. I've said before that AEB-L is for people that like to maintain very sharp edges, as it will hold the original "scary sharp" edge very well, though the thinner the geometry of the knife, the better AEB-L will look in comparison to steels like CPM-154 or S30V. For extremely thin geometry, I can't think of anything better in stainless. For hunting knives there are better choices.

I just got an e-mail from Roman, and he thinks that 19C27 would have a considerably finer carbide structure than 1.4111. I wish I knew what the carbide volume of it was. I'm hoping that Sandvik will bring some photo micrographs, but I'm not going to count on it. With how highly Roman rates the edge stability, toughness, ease of sharpening, etc. of 1.4111, 19C27 could be quite a bit better than CPM-154 in most categories other than long term slicing edge retention and corrosion resistance.

I just hope that Sandvik sells enough that these steels continue to be on the market.
 
Bungwrench said:
Haven't swiss army knives used Sandvik for a long time?

Funny.
Click to expand...
The steels have been used in production knives for a long time. I'm excited because they are finally available in smaller quantities for American custom knifemakers.
 
I think you hit a couple of key points. I just hope they are carried out. This steel (AEB-L) was known and used here before and the reputation destroyed because it was used improperly. Left soft, ran with thick edges and quickly delegated as a low 440 type steel.

-Cliff
 
Larrin said:
I just hope that Sandvik sells enough that these steels continue to be on the market.
Click to expand...

Work with Spyderco to put out some knives which are highly optomized for that series of steel. I proposed a few designs a while back. If you really put some high performance blades out then of course the steel will sell itself.

-Cliff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top