Sandvik vs. 420?

B

brians

Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
1,375
Guys,

I've never owned a Buck but recently handled a Vantage Avid and it suits my backpacking needs for an easy carrying, deploying and cleaning slicer.

My question is: Is the Sandvik steel worth the increased price over the 420? How do they compare in terms of edge retention and ease of sharpening?

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

B
 
I've heard the Sandvik works a little better in applications like filet knives.

That's about it.
 
Sandvik has been used a lot in the Kershaw line (i think there were some exclusive rights or something for a while). But I love sandvik. It takes an edge well, easy to sharpen, and it stays for a long time. Depending on the finish of the blade, it might have some rust issues. I know that a lot of Kershaws are bead-blasted and that actually makes them rust a lot more. I have a lot of tiny rust spots on my leek and OD-1, but I also live in a very humid country. Also, it depends on if it is 13C26N or 14C28N. 14C28N has a lot better rust resiliance than 13. I think the finish on the vantage's blade is satin, but i am not positive. I have defininely been looking at one of these knives for a while, but I am going to go the Pro route and get it in S30V!
 
McCleaven said:
Sandvik has been used a lot in the Kershaw line (i think there were some exclusive rights or something for a while). But I love sandvik. It takes an edge well, easy to sharpen, and it stays for a long time. Depending on the finish of the blade, it might have some rust issues. I know that a lot of Kershaws are bead-blasted and that actually makes them rust a lot more. I have a lot of tiny rust spots on my leek and OD-1, but I also live in a very humid country. Also, it depends on if it is 13C26N or 14C28N. 14C28N has a lot better rust resiliance than 13. I think the finish on the vantage's blade is satin, but i am not positive. I have defininely been looking at one of these knives for a while, but I am going to go the Pro route and get it in S30V!
Click to expand...


Hmmm, interesting. This knife will be used in wet environments.

Do you think the Sandvik 13 is more susceptible to rust than the 420?
 
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I own all three versions of the Buck Vantage (Select 420HC, Avid 13C26, Pro S30V) and think you can't go wrong with any of them. As for the edge retention, corrosion resistence, sharpening ease debate here is my take. The Sandvik 13C26 has a .68% carbon content where I believe the 420HC is between .4%-.5% (carbon content isn't the end all of edge retention as heat treat/hardness and other factors play in but carbon content is a key). Buck does wonders with 420HC and the Avid model gets the Paul Bos heat treat so both are expertly heat treated. Both have a 13% chromium content for corrosion resistence.

Now in real world applications having carried and used both knives (a Buck Vantage is my EDC 90% of the time) I would recommend the Avid in 13C26. I find the edge retention on the Avid to be noticeably better than the Select (they aren't worlds apart but I notice a difference). Also I find both to be easy to sharpen and I am sharpening challenged. With a DMT diafold I can get both sharp enough to shave hair and slice newspaper cleanly (which is sharp enough for me) in minutes.

As for corrosion resistance both are very good. I live in Wisconsin and it gets pretty dang humid around here. I also camp and hike around water alot (Lake Michigan, various lakes and rivers) and have not had any rust issues with either knife. I would advise you to buy which ever one you like the feel of better. Personally I didn't like the Dymondwood handle on the Avid at first but after using it more I found it to be very comfortable and I decided to replace my Select with it. Hope this ramble helps you out. Good luck!
 
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I'm learning to really like what I've seen in Sandvik steels. Buck's 420HC is good, they've extracted as much as they can from it with great heat treat. As mentioned though, the carbon content is higher in the Sandvik steels, and Sandvik's process focuses on producing extremely fine grain, which translates into edges that can be made extremely fine, at relatively high hardness (58-60 RC). I don't have a Buck in Sandvik, but I've been spending a good deal of time lately playing around with an Opinel in Sandvik stainless (12C27M). It has sharpened & polished up beautifully and compares similarly in terms of ease of sharpening. It's very good stuff, so far as I'm concerned.

The only negatives I've heard, regarding any of the Sandvik steels, were related to Kershaw's bead-blasted blades rusting easily. That's been verified as due to the finish on those blades (too many nooks & crannies for moisture to hide in), but no particular fault of the steel itself. Kershaw 'upgraded' to another Sandvik version, with higher corrosion resistance, and that helped some with their issues. But the main problem was due to the bead blast finish they used.
 
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brians said:
Hmmm, interesting. This knife will be used in wet environments.

Do you think the Sandvik 13 is more susceptible to rust than the 420?
Click to expand...

The difference, in terms of Chromium content (which defines how 'stainless' the steel is), is essentially moot. Virtually the same:

Chromium content in the 13C26 = 12.9%. ( http://www.sandvik.com/sandvik/0140...BDCF45620909D922C12577DE004BF9F8?OpenDocument )
Chromium content in the 420HC = 13.0 %. ( http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php?snm=420hc )
 
I've come to the conclusion that the difference in the two steels is essentially moot......not just in corrosion resistance, but in almost every way.

I mentioned before that the Sandvik may work a little better in applications like fillet knives.

That's about it. The only other difference I can remember hearing about is that some people felt that since the Sandvik is a more finely textured steel that it takes a better initial edge--but, I also have seen a lot of reports that this initially better edge made little difference as it very quickly lost that edge and became equal to the edge of a 420HC blade (comparing Buck to Buck) and the two steels seemed quite equal in cutting ability after that.

I haven't used the Sandvik myself and I don't put much stock in single anecdotal reports on this, but I've Googled the steel and read many, MANY anecdotal reports and I think we can at least begin to get a picture of what differences there are in these two steels if we spend the time and take a good look at all the information available.

From all that I've seen......ain't much, if any, difference.

Both good steels, both benefiting from the BOS heat treat and nothing to make one really stand out as all-around better than the other.
 
I see a lot of referneces to Bos still, but didn't he retire a little while ago?
 
420 is a crap garbage steel that only belongs on cheap knives. Sandvik has much better overall steels.
 
I can get Buck's 13c26 and 420hc newspaper slicing sharp with polished edges in about the same amount of time using my ez-lap diamond stones, some 2000 grit sandpaper, and a makeshift leather belt strop with blue magic polish. 13c26 is a little easier for me to sharpen; I personally find it easier to raise a burr on 420hc but conversely it's also a little more difficult to remove the burr on 420hc since it seems to just flop from side to side, but that may just be my technique and inexperience. After I'm through sharpening, the Sandvik seems to be a bit sharper and hold its edge a little longer as well. 420hc is by no means a crap steel, at least not with the BOS/Buck heat treat. It's a very basic steel, not stellar, but Bucks are as good as 420hc gets. Between the two, I favor the 13c26. As an added plus, the Dymondwood scales that come with the 13c26 Avid Vantage look nice too :D.

I started out with a Vantage in 420hc but am now EDC-ing a Vantage in s30v and a Vantage Force in 13c26.
 
Regarding the burrs on 420HC, I've noticed it also. The ductility of that steel is evident there (bending/deforming, instead of chipping/breaking off). I've also noticed the same trait in Case's Tru-Sharp stainless, which is actually 420HC, by another name. It's actually more stubborn in the Tru-Sharp, which isn't heat treated to as high RC as Buck's recipe (leaving it all-the-more ductile).
 
Thanks for all the information guys.

I do like the Dymondwood :) , and it doesn't seem like I can go wrong with either model.

Looking forward to becoming am anvilhead :)
 
I love the 13C26, as a matter of fact I like the Sandivic steel better than the Pro line of Vantages( for the money). I use my Avid during fishing all the time and I have never had an issue with rust yet. Look, anything will rust, no matter what the steel. If you take care of your knife you shouldnt have an issue. USE OIL
 
I agree that the concerns with rust are WAY overblown.

I've had many non-stainless knives and used them for many years and never had one rust.

Just normal, common-sense care will suffice.

Most rust damage comes from stupid or irresponsible people leaving a knife in a wet sheath and forgetting about it.
 
It gives people something to worry about, as if there isn't enough in the world today, and something to justify the spending of more money to upgrade. I have done the same thing but it matter in the long run. If you that care of your knife and dont leave it in a wet sheath in your tackle box for 3 months it will be ok.
 
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