Sanmai: Difficulty of forge welding 52100 to 3XX SS.

Karburized

Karburized

Joined
Aug 30, 2012
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Turns out there's a blacksmith about a block away from where I live that has 2 power hammers and a rolling mill. And is willing to trade a knife for some equipment use time.

On a scale of 1 to 10 how difficult is it to forge weld 52100 to 304 SS? For that matter what 3xx series steel would you recommend? From what i gather 316L is ideal for this kind of operation.

Thanks.
 
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Is it the actual forging or is what happens during a quench/cool down? From what i gather the alloying in the SS is what really makes it a pain in the butt.
 
Stainless and carbon are hard to get welded together without extreme oxygen exclusion. You have to tig weld it all the way around, or use a canister most of the time. Different guys do it different ways.
 
Karl Andersen makes a number of layered blades with a 1095 core and I think 416 sides.

CORRECTION: 420. See Karl's post below. :)
 
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The only 52100/stainless blades I've held were made by Bill Burke. I was really surprised because to that point, I'd only heard of simpler carbon steels being used for blades like that. It's already a really picky process to forge weld stainless sides to carbon steel cores, but some more of the alloying in 52100 means that much more difficulty in the whole process. And yes-you mention the HT difficulties. The expansion/contraction rates of the differing steels can mean some definite frustration along the way.

All that being said, it can most certainly be done. If you move forward with it, please post. I'd love to "tag along" and learn how you do.


Jeremy
 
james terrio said:
Karl Andersen makes a number of layered blades with a 1095 core and I think 416 sides.
Click to expand...

Karl is using 420 for his stainless.

It's a High 10 like Stacy says, I've done it successfully 5 times now, won't mention how many unsuccessful.
 
Cool. Thanks for the heads up folk. I have this horrible problem of always picking and choosing "hard mode" when it comes to stuff like this. It's a curse tell you.

Any ideas for a nicely contrasting steel with decent corrosion resistance?
 
This is only a thought rattling around in my noodle...so take it with a grain if salt ;).

I'm planning on getting some AEB-L as a stainless option for some knives I'm wanting to make. I know the steel is used by some of the well known makers in their all stainless Damascus blends. That being said, I don't know how well it would contrast with some of the carbon steel cores. It also wouldn't be a true San Mai blade in that the sides are in fact hardenable. But, it "may" be "easier" in a few different things than the previously mentioned blend of steels. Emphasis on "may"... :).

Maybe we'll both get lucky and someone way smarter than me will weigh in.


Jeremy
 
410, 416, 420 are going to give you the least problems. a mig welder actually works better than a tig welder. if you get one little thing wrong it is a disaster. if everything is right then it works out very nice. aebl welds ok but no easier than 4xx and it etches dark so little to no contrast. an option that is slightly easier is to weld up 4xx and 201 nickel into Damascus and the san mai that using nickel between the core and the Damascus.
 
Bill Burke said:
410, 416, 420 are going to give you the least problems. a mig welder actually works better than a tig welder. if you get one little thing wrong it is a disaster. if everything is right then it works out very nice. aebl welds ok but no easier than 4xx and it etches dark so little to no contrast. an option that is slightly easier is to weld up 4xx and 201 nickel into Damascus and the san mai that using nickel between the core and the Damascus.
Click to expand...

What wire are you using to do that, is it stainless wire ?
 
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