SAR Shelter & Firecraft...

River-8

River-8

Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
683
Picked a really windy day to do some basic shelter building and firecraft training.
Didn't get pics early on, but a few from later in the day:

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Free standing natural shelter without nails, string or even zip-ties.

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Teamwork works!

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Prepping the 'subject' for warming.
Bit of a fire started, processing more firewood...

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Hot beverage on the way!

One of the challenges in a high-wind environment is situating the shelter to keep the smoke clear, yet protecting those being sheltered; about a 3/4 back-to-the-wind orientation seems to work the best...

Shelter built and fire started in about 45 minutes; not bad, but could always be better!

Good day with great folks!

8
 
Looks like a great time! Thanks for sharing! It's always motivating coming on to this forum
 
Cool. One of the better shelters I've seen on the interwebs. Free standing to boot!
 
Six people building a one to two person shelter taking 45 mins with six people so that is about 4.5 man hours of labor. What would it be if it was only one or two laborers? And one is sick or injured?

I'm in no way being critical - but when multiple people build one shelter it gives them a false sense of really how long it really takes in an emergency to build a rugged, structurally sound sustainable weather resistant shelter. When one or two people construct a shelter they realize how much work and time is involved - and we made them spend at least usually two nights in it during the winter - learning from their mistakes definitely occurs!! We found it takes a minimum of a hand length (to the wrist) depth of fir boughs and still expect to get wet.

I'm really impressed with your construction and structure! Nicely done. I appreciate your posts!!
 
Nice topic and great pics. Nice to see that a big blade is shown to be the chosen tool and useful for this endeavor.
 
Quirt said:
Six people building a one to two person shelter taking 45 mins with six people so that is about 4.5 man hours of labor. What would it be if it was only one or two laborers? And one is sick or injured?

I'm in no way being critical - but when multiple people build one shelter it gives them a false sense of really how long it really takes in an emergency to build a rugged, structurally sound sustainable weather resistant shelter. When one or two people construct a shelter they realize how much work and time is involved - and we made them spend at least usually two nights in it during the winter - learning from their mistakes definitely occurs!! We found it takes a minimum of a hand length (to the wrist) depth of fir boughs and still expect to get wet.

I'm really impressed with your construction and structure! Nicely done. I appreciate your posts!!
Click to expand...

I would believe River8 conducted/did this for training and more familiarity of a properly made shelter with minimal equipment/resources at hand. I always do something of this fashion with my Boy Scouts everytime I start out with the field portion (culmination) of our Wilderness Survival Merit Badge outing. It always seems to take a few hours to make an initial one to take them by the numbers/steps to properly construct a debris type of shelter. The boys get pretty efficient after awhile and once they sleep under the shelter for a night especially in wet conditions, they certainly appreciate constructing it adequately and efficiently the first go round. Great post and responses all around.
'Scouts Out"
 
Nice post and pics, thanks. Manpower in hours a good point. Spending 2 nights in any hand-built shelter is a great way to learn. Really makes you appreciate what a tarp, fly, poncho etc really means...much less a tent or hammock.
 
scout1sg said:
I would believe River8 conducted/did this for training and more familiarity of a properly made shelter with minimal equipment/resources at hand. I always do something of this fashion with my Boy Scouts everytime I start out with the field portion (culmination) of our Wilderness Survival Merit Badge outing. It always seems to take a few hours to make an initial one to take them by the numbers/steps to properly construct a debris type of shelter. The boys get pretty efficient after awhile and once they sleep under the shelter for a night especially in wet conditions, they certainly appreciate constructing it adequately and efficiently the first go round. Great post and responses all around.
'Scouts Out"
Click to expand...

Oh I clearly understood this was done for training and familiarity. And I also understand it is to help newbies become acclimated to the process, materials, and safety considerations of building a hasty fire and shelter in an emergency. I also realize this is just the first of possibly many outings for these SAR team members and they're just becoming familiar with the general process. And as I stated above I was in no way being critical. Just offering some insight which is often not taken into consideration.

River-8 and his team in WA do an amazing job. I wish I could join them and learn from them as well (hint, hint, hint). I was only pointing out to me/us (not directed at him or his team necessarily) that it takes a considerable more time/energy than most people think. And when learning is done in larger groups (more than 2) it gives an unrealistic sense of time to construct a weather resistant natural shelter when you are solo, in a dyad or triad. I also realize SAR teams generally have larger numbers so it isn't unrealistic to presuppose that a group of 4-6 might really construction a shelter as a team - which is what this exercise appears to be attempting.

My main point is this....if a hunter (for example) learned shelter construction in a small group and it took him/her and their class 45 minutes to construct a natural shelter for inclement weather. And now fast forward to where this person is now hunting...and this hunter now realizes he/she has about an hour daylight left before dark and there is no way he/she can make it back to camp/truck/road. But now he/she is tired, wet, cold, hungry, dehydrated, anxious...in his/her mind, our hunter is thinking "geez, I've built a natural shelter before in about an hour and I can do it now." The reality is to build the same shelter under these potential circumstances is going to be considerably longer...plus River-8's class also built a simultaneous sustainable fire during this 45 minutes.
 
Quirt, I learned in Scouts when I was 15. There's alot of trial and error, but you get the hang of it. That said, it's still a decent amount of work. I'm 42, and could still do it. Would be alot harder for older people to do the work, though, because teenagers are more revved up and in far better shape than me now.

I think it's cool that y'all did it. If you're really in a survival situation, one thing you have is time, so if it takes longer to be safe and dry, who cares. It's THAT you can do it, not HOW FAST.

Bravo, OP!
 
Quirt said:
Oh I clearly understood this was done for training and familiarity.

I wish I could join them and learn from them as well (hint, hint, hint).
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Totally got, and appreciated what you said :thumbup:
I was indeed the first look at the process for some, and practice for some of the more seasoned.
That and we spent a fair amount of time blathering on about heat transfer, dead airspace, improvisation, teamwork, leadership and other such things.
2nd weekend in February they'll be building, individually, that in which they shall sleep...

We may be fortunate enough to once again have USAF SERE Specialists with us!

Ongoing process...

As to the second point; no hint needed - invitation always open!

Cheers,
8
 
stanley_white said:
River-8,

Have you ever thought about putting on a survival-type course for open enrollment?

-Stan
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Sadly no.

Back in the day I worked with Greg Davenport as he ran civilian survival courses, but the Forest Service made doing business (on OUR land) too difficult and expensive with their ever-changing fees and rules...

But we DO get out most Sunday's (meet at Noon in the EOC) and play around with much of this stuff...
And I've been know to Show-N-Tell for beer...:D!!

8
 
Nice. This is the type of skill that once seen done and practiced, can stay with you a lifetime. And really, it does not take long for even an old man like me to throw together an imprompto brush shelter if one knows the steps. It is mostly a lot of walking too and fro gathering the materials before you begin, the same as with making a fire. And of course you need to incorporate the teamwork aspect early on. Well done.
 
Show and tell for beer.... if I was not 3000 miles away I show up with a keg.

Great stuff
Thanks
 
Always good times hanging with R8!!!!!! You might get lucky and almost die!!!!! :D Nothing like hanging out with SAR folks who like knives!
 
Quirt said:
Six people building a one to two person shelter taking 45 mins with six people so that is about 4.5 man hours of labor. What would it be if it was only one or two laborers? And one is sick or injured?

I'm in no way being critical - but when multiple people build one shelter it gives them a false sense of really how long it really takes in an emergency to build a rugged, structurally sound sustainable weather resistant shelter. When one or two people construct a shelter they realize how much work and time is involved - and we made them spend at least usually two nights in it during the winter - learning from their mistakes definitely occurs!! We found it takes a minimum of a hand length (to the wrist) depth of fir boughs and still expect to get wet.

I'm really impressed with your construction and structure! Nicely done. I appreciate your posts!!
Click to expand...

I know River-8 is a first class guy (of course, he's a fellow Washingtonian...what other option is there?:D), but this is a good learning point. I was going to joke and comment on having a pretty crowded shelter, but the reality is that it does take a lot of time and effort, especially if alone. The skills learned are priceless, but more importantly is to validate why some kit items are critical such as a compact tarp and quality clothes. Even with a tarp cover, natural foliage is still necessary to improve and add insulation. There's a reason pro's continue to train as skills are perishable along with the fact that it's often hard to assess the level of effort and time necessary for some tasks. Thanks for sharing!

ROCK6
 
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