Saw my first Taylor Schrades today...

[Sword and Shield]

:barf:

Good GOD those things are ugly! 8OT, 33OT, and the Sharpfinger. What I don't get is that the real Schrades remaining are under glass, and cheaper than those POSes. :barf:

 

[textoothpk]

We've already got one mandatory weekly Taylor Slamming thread going, but always room for another. We're lucky; as you write, Arthur, there are plenty of real Schrades out there for us to admire, buy, collect, use, present as gifts, ect. Type in 'Schrade' at Ebay and you get about 1600 entries, most of them the 'real thing'. Other American made manufacturers have stepped in to fill the gap, Camillus, Rigid, Bear, ect.

Where did you see the Taylor-Sch****s at? A retail establishment? A national chain? I've asked a couple of hardware store owners what they were doing to replace the Schrade line (I cleaned most of them out of the desirable originals here in town, including the display cases). 'Case' was the answer from two of them. I see that Home Depot, which carried a few Schrades for so long (the multi-tool, 8OT, ect), have just gone to the China-made 'Sheffield' line (now there is another truth-in-advertising problem, as those are also made in China). The one excellent Knife shop here in town will not carry the new ones, the owner putting them into the same catagory as Jim Frost knives.

Interesting note: The hardwares (affiliated with Ace or Tru-Value) told me they had not been offered Taylor-Schr****s, but simply told Schrade was no longer available. Again, be interesting to read where you examined the Taylor-Sch****s at. That company does need a distribution chain to keep them going, don't they? When the sale of Schrade happened, I expected to see every retail establishment that had carried the real ones automatically begin selling the Taylor junk.

But I end on a postive note here... Once more, we've got all the real Schrades we could ask for out there for the taking. Most of them of real quality, many of them with the added cache of genuine collectibility.

Phil

 

[Codger_64]

...........there are plenty of real Schrades out there for us to admire, buy, collect, use, present as gifts, ect.

Good post as always, Phil. Schrade was, afterall a mass manufacturer. The market supply in the pipeline between Schrade and the distributors and retailers lasted for several months before the buying frenzy began drying it up. And this was with retail purchasing up more than two to three times it's normal level. Remember when the SMKW hoard first began to be released and show up on eBay? That was this March to May? That WIP well still has not run dry. And most often, the high production knives found NIB in the retail market can still be purchased below the last MSRP.

...........I've asked a couple of hardware store owners what they were doing to replace the Schrade line ...... 'Case' was the answer from two of them. ...........

My local Tru-Value has them listed in their wholesale source catalog, and yes, they are lidted as Taylor made. Whether or not their supplier ever stocked up on them or not, I haven't a clue. The store did not after I informed them of the chinese origin. Case was their choice.

...........we've got all the real Schrades we could ask for out there for the taking. Most of them of real quality, many of them with the added cache of genuine collectibility............

Truer words were never spoken. While we all hate to see the Schrade names, designs, and reputation sullied by the importation of Chinese copies, I would hate to think that my livlihood was based on their marketability. Documenting the patterns being imported and the obvious differences between the real Schrades and the copies here is the best I can do to allow collectors the choice of making an informed purchase.

Codger

 

[philw]

The only place I have seen any Taylor's have been at flea markets. Walmart seems to be happy with Gerber/Winchester and Kmart looks to have a deal with United. Target carries Gerber and Vic. I have been to a Dunhams sporting goods, Dicks sporting goods, and Gander Mountain and none of them are carrying them. Our local Ace hardware carries 2 or 3 Case.
I think they have overpriced them. They are not competitive with other Chinese brands like Winchester. I don't think they have a market and wouldn't be surprised to see them disappear within the next couple of years unless they can score a big retailer.

 

[lt632ret]

This was precisely the point I alluded to in the other thread in which I questioned what was going on with Taylors marketing. I really wanted to see if anyone else had picked up on it without my coming out and saying it since knowing my feelings I am sure it would have been construed as sour grapes. Considering the money spent on the tooling and such for so many patterns you would ( I believe ) have expected a more receptive market. Truthfully as I have pointed out I do not believe that the Asian point of view was so much to replace Schrade with another Schrade but rather to remove American Schrades from the market. Mr Taylor may very well have been duped and used just as Schrade was for the ( lets call it ) the bigger picture that his Asian partners may have in mind. If so Mr Taylor may be as expendable as Schrade was. Once again time will tell. LT

 

[redshanks]

LT, I'm trying to follow your logic regarding Taylor's marketing of Schrade products, but I must be missing some key information. How could Taylor be duped and by whom? He's had contracts in place for his other China made chit for quite some time; Schrade is just another well known brand in his stable of other well known brands. If anything, it's the public that's being duped.

I do agree that it's to his advantage to see the current inventory of US made Schrades soaked up by those who know the difference because his strategy may be a longterm one. The next generation of the knife buying public won't care about the history of Schrade. If the new China made knives are a good value in their minds, the public will buy them with little regard to where they were made. The Schrade line fills some big gaps in the current offerings in the Taylor line and was probably judged by the company as a good fit instead of going out and creating new designs that would have little chance of getting established in the already crowded marketplace.

I have 5 boys and a couple of them are interested in knives as a user from a practical standpoint. We were in a large sporting goods store recently and one of them was looking over the selection of Buck knives. He was intent on comparing one Buck design against another and the price of each. He was indifferent as to whether the knife was a Buck made in California, Idaho, Taiwan or China. He is a member of the new knife buying generation and won't discover the nuances of knives until he's been around the block a few more times.

 

[lt632ret]

The point in question that was brought out, is where is his market? In order to understand whom I refer to as his, (Taylors partners) and whom might be using him you really would have to access the archives to understand what has and is going on. Sadly you are quite correct about the buying practices and customer loyalty of the American public. I concur with Phil W in his observations and merely offered what I felt may be part of the reasons for his conclusions. It is even sadder that we condone and support products from governments which use political prisoner labor ( many of whom support democracy and our govt) to compete with our own products and people buy these items without being aware that by doing so we stifle our economy and fund theres. Only time will tell I merely offered a viewpoint. In conclusion all I am asking is while he may have markets for his other lines who is he selling the vast quantitys of the new Schrades to? Or perhapes as you suggest he is waiting until all the american Schrades are gone so that new buyers will not realize the difference. We will just have to see. LT

 

[redshanks]

Lt, you've witnessed a lot over the years regarding Schrade. I can't imagine how you feel about what's going on now.

 

[philw]

This is another reason why I think Taylor made a really bad business decision. If we look at percentages I'm sure OT's and UH's are not the first choice of most of the younger knife buyers. I would guess tactical, balisong and some of United's fantasy type stuff sells well.

You can't sell the "a knife like your grandfather owned" line anymore because gramps knife wasn't Chinese.

Then you lose out on a large percentage of the older market because they feel betrayed by the new imposter.
Even the flea market sellers I have talked to do not put the Taylors in the same category as the originals. I usually hear something like "their pretty good for an import"
Then with the consumers that are left you have to compete with the Chinese Bucks, Frost, United and Winchesters of the world. Let's face it the OT's and UH's weren't the prettiest knives on the block to begin with.
With no major retailer what are you left with?
I just received a flyer for a local chain of hunting stores today and they are running a special on Buck 110's for 19.99! I know it's a great price but even at Walmarts $29 I think most people would spend the extra couple of dollars and buy the better knife. If the Taylors were in the $10 range I could see them moving but not at what they have them priced at now

My guess is that Taylor thought he was going to make some easy money by using the Schrade name and grossly miscalculated. Other businesses have been bought out and moved overseas and remained profitable so I'm guessing he thought Schrade wouldn't be any different.
The problem is the knife industry is very competitive and consumers have many choices.

 

[redshanks]

Excellent points. My boys don't share my interest in Schrades and that may be one of the reasons that led to the demise of the company. Even though Schrade came out with the "Space Debris" line of knives, they were still deeply rooted in the past. In the retail market, OT's and UH's were usually relegated to hardware stores and lumberyards, places where guys of my generation were likely to frequent. I remember seeing a few of the new rubber handled OT's at a Galyan's store, but apart from that, Schrade knives did not have a prominent place in most sporting goods stores in this area.

I think I now understand what you and Lt are talking about. Taylor's strategy may have been doomed from the start. If Taylor thought that the failure of Schrade was a cost/price issue, it may be much bigger than that. It could be that Schrade products lost their appeal with new buyers and won't sell at any price. Older buyers that grew up with Schrade knives, would never touch a cheap China copy of the real thing.