sawing and chopping

O

Old Painless

Joined
Apr 10, 2006
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I didn't want to title the thread "sawing VS. chopping" because I really don't intend to get a debate going here. But I do have a question: Are saws really more energy efficient than hatchets?
I was doing some yard work and noticed a low-hanging oak branch that will be getting in the way of the riding-mower so I grabbed a saw. The cut had to be made at sort of an awkward angle and it proved to be a little frustrating. Maybe the teeth were too big on this particular saw for a 2.5" diameter branch. But it kept getting stuck (i think mostly because of the awkward angle) and I was losing patience. I kept thinking, I wonder if I go get my hatchet if I can lop this thing off in a few strong chops? In a wilderness situation I know I would rather do the least frustrating thing.

Are there particular conditions when a saw is more useful or when a hatchet is more useful? Or is it preference every time?
 
For me it depends on what, where, and how I'm cutting. I use whichever is best suited for the task, and usually carry both in the woods.
 
I use my 12" Ontario machete with the 1/8" thick convexed blade alot more than I use my several hatchets and saws. Particularly for what you're refering to. Yard type work.--KV
 
A saw, in my experience, is only more efficent in ideal conditions. If the branch is on the ground or low hanging and you have a stump to brace it against, I think a saw would, perhaps, be slighly more efficient there. It would also depend on the thickness of the branch. A properly sharpened hatchet or machete will go through anything up to about three inches in one or two chops, but a saw is going to take alot longer there. If you are into math, think of the equation of the graph of a saws efficiency having a large y-intercept and a small slope, and compair that to the equation of chopping, which would have a smaller y-intercept but a steeper slope. so, the branch would have to be above a certain length for the saw to be more efficient. I hope that makes sense.

but, I have alot more fun shopping with an axe than I do putting a saw through simple harmonic motion :D
 
For yard work, a cleaner cut would be better for the living tree- so I would use a saw. When I am camping and gathering wood for a fire, I like a hatchet. My reasons are pretty simple- I enjoy using a hatchet/ax. I can chop, split or carve. Granted, this is a bit of a new fascination. I have been carving tent pegs and walking sticks in the yard for fun using only a small ax. A saw is probably safer, especially in a situation where a fellow camper may want to use your tool, but I think a hatchet can do a few more tasks.
 
For playing around making things -- something I like to do -- a hatchet is great. When I need to get some wood cut, however, I'll use my Silky saw. I find it more efficient for the actual cutting, even though I might use the hatchet for splitting it after cutting.

A lot of that may have to do with my age, though. Sawing is easier for me nowadays. When I was younger, I delighted in swinging an axe.
 
I would prefer a hatchet or big knife like a khukuri, whilst a saw is usefull I don't see the point in carrying both, unless its in the back of a truck, and your not hiking.
 
koyote said:
were you using a pruning saw?
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No, just a plain old bow saw. :o

Some really good responses here. Barber, I nearly flunked out of math but your reasoning makes sense. Good stuff.

Billbo thanks for the tip on the clean cuts being better for the tree to heal.

I guess I saw this coming, but a big part of this whole thing is: get the right saw for the job at hand -- duh.
 
Old Painless said:
I guess I saw this coming, but a big part of this whole thing is: get the right saw for the job at hand -- duh.
Click to expand...

A full size bow saw is great for a lot of things, if you have the space to use it easily. I have three of them, and use them on occasion, but they're unwieldily in some situations. For most things, I use my Silky Super Accel 210. It's a folder, but it's the best cutter I've ever owned, within its limitations (length).
 
Okay, a bow saw works best with a bench and such. I am low budget, so I use a Corona folding pruning saw for hiking and a regular 14 inch corona pruning saw at home. They are wicked fast, I mean *fast* cutters, and leave good enough cuts that I'd be okay knocking together form forntier furniture with one, but they aren't dovetail saws, yknow.

Given that hatchets and saws aren't bare necessity 'get out of the woods alive" materiel in most conditions, I find that when camping in groups and packing in, it's best is there some of each.

The pull cut pruning saw is a wicked fast thing to have around, and even my solo pack has one.
 
koyote said:
The pull cut pruning saw is a wicked fast thing to have around, and even my solo pack has one.
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Pull cuts is all I could do at the angle I had - push was getting stuck every time. I never even heard of a "pull cut" saw.

This place is great -- I'm gettin' my edumacation on!
 
I think it also depends on what you were doing BEFORE you use the saw or axe. After a long day of backpacking, the last thing I want to do is swing an axe/hatchet, even though I know the proper safe techniques. I would much rather use a saw when I am tired. Saws do not require nearly as much hand eye coordination. :)
 
Assuming ideal conditions with all other variable the same, this would be a graphical display of when to do what (IMO):
3641062551_1b37e14d2f.jpg
 
love the graph!!!

Yeah, the silky, coronoa, and suchlike (don't get the coghlans) pruning saws have the "alligator teeth" and work will with pull cutting. The downard curved blade helps, too.

If you cna budget it, I'd suggest strongly getting a full sized 14 inch type one for home- and I'd really recommend corona professional- and use it a bit, that will give you comparison when you start trying out gerber, silky, corona, or whatever pocket saw.
 
I think the saw is easier on a live tree. It's also better for precision cuts (cutting out things), doesn't create the waste a hatchet or ax does, doesn't require much skill, and isn't as dangerous (there are no minor injuries with an ax). But once you've gotten the hang of it, I think you can go through a lot more wood with a lot less effort using an ax or a hatchet.

Last weekend I had the top of an old oak tree came down in a storm. I thought I'd try to compare the Silkey saw with the GB hatchet. For me there was no comparison - I gave up on the saw (way too slow and way too much work) and finished the job with the hatchet.

I don't use much mucle using a hatchet or ax. The power comes from the length of the handle and the weight of the head. I just use my arms to hit the target, so I don't seem to get as tired as fast as I do with a saw. It also seems to cut faster. But this may be an individual thing.
 
There's energy efficient tools and there's energy efficient ways of using tools.

Often carry a 12” bow saw. I find that much more efficient than the hatchet at the times I choose to field it. The hatchet I currently use is no lightweight and I've got a good profile on it but the saw kills it at cross grain cutting. Most of the year I don't bother with the hatchet for exactly that reason.

That said, the way I use both saw and ax means that this particular race doesn't kick off 'till I've exceeded the comfortable range of my golok.
 
storl said:
I think it also depends on what you were doing BEFORE you use the saw or axe. After a long day of backpacking, the last thing I want to do is swing an axe/hatchet, even though I know the proper safe techniques. I would much rather use a saw when I am tired. Saws do not require nearly as much hand eye coordination. :)
Click to expand...

This is kind of the opposite of what I was experiencing yesterday though -- mainly because of the inappropriate angle I was forced to use, but I felt like a couple of hefty chops and I could have called it a day, versus trying to keep a steady angle with even pressure for the sawing motion. But then again, I could use some other saws in my arsenal so that I can get at tough angles like these.
 
Old Painless said:
This is kind of the opposite of what I was experiencing yesterday though -- mainly because of the inappropriate angle I was forced to use, but I felt like a couple of hefty chops and I could have called it a day, versus trying to keep a steady angle with even pressure for the sawing motion. But then again, I could use some other saws in my arsenal so that I can get at tough angles like these.
Click to expand...

If the angles are that tough for a bow saw, would you have the room to safely swing a hatchet? Often a folding pruning saw (Silky, Corona, whatever) will get into places where neither a bow saw nor a hatchet can be used.

Also, I'm with baldtaco in that it depends what needs to be cut. Small branches can usually be lopped off with my BK-2. The next step up is my bolo machete, but when a couple of whacks with the bolo won't do it, I reach for the saw.
 
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