Scale on damascus billets

Joss

Joss

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
7,353
Hi,

Is there a "trick" to minimize scale on damascus billets? Each time I want to cut and stack, I have to work with the angle grinder for a long time to get the material clean. I've read of people coating billets with borax and dunking them quickly in water, but that seems like asking for trouble. I try to brush off the scale before bringing the billet to the press (at my friend Nick Wheeler's shop - thanks Nick!), but the scale sticks pretty hard. Plus, if I loose heat brushing off the scale before an "on the edge" draw, the billet draws irregularly. Typically, the top and bottom upset a bit, which then forms dips on the main faces of the billet, where the scale accumulates.

Any idea would be much appreciated....

Thanks,

JD
 
when i fold a billet i will mark the billet and hot cut it 1/2 way through then flux the side your going to stick together bring it up to welding heat take out with a wet brush remove the molten flux. then refulx fold the billet over youve got to be fairly quick. forge and the stick it together i have also taken and soaked the pices for my stack in vinigar overnight brushed all the crap off stacked tack welded togather and viola you have it work for me any way hope this helps
 
If the billet is at welding heat the scale can be taken off easily with a heavy-duty wire brush. If you dip the brush in water first it helps. If it is allowed to cool too much it will need to be ground off with the angle grinder. Its really not just scale it is mostly borax that builds up and causes the bad dips and craters which disrupt an otherwise perfect pattern. I like to remove it before the forging to shape begins just after the welding is finished. I like to keep near welding heat while drawing and wet wire brushing quickly before drawing or forging to shape. Do I make sense? Bottom Line: Dont let borax cool on the billet. It just keeps building up and can really cause some unsightly voids in the welds otherwise thought to be cold-shuts. It only takes a thin coat of borax to protect the steel from oxygen.

Hope Im helpful
 
If you hot cut fast enough and fold fast enough,you shouldn't have to worry about the fllux in between heats...I just hot cut -fold-flux again and then weld it again.Cleaning the borax and scale off will make a piece weld easier for me sometimes.Like if a piece doesn't want to weld back I will grind it off and add a piece of banding material in between the weld and then it will stick good..
Bruce
 
All,

Thanks for the tips. I don't think flux is the problem, because the stuff on the billet isn't vitrous in appearance at all. It looks like ... well, like scale. What's possible is that borax get caught early on the surface and creates dips where the scale then accumulates.

As I mention in my initial post, when I rotate the billet and press on the sides either to straighten or to reduce the width, if I'm not hot enough, I get some upseting (i.e., the bar becomes thicker on both sides than in the center.) Maybe it's due to my keeping the billet too wide. How wide are your billets, typically? Mines start at 1.5", but often get at much as 2"...

As I'm thinking about it, I think the wet brush will help. It's possible too that the brush I use be not stiff enough.

Bruce, do I understand correctly that you don't clean the scale at all before folding? My sequence is, draw the billet, then when the length, thickness, etc, is good, take off the fire, clean up the billet (argh! :mad: ), cut it with the abrasive saw, stack, weld, etc... I've done the hot cutting thing too, but I would still clean up the billet on the grinder before actually folding...

JD
 
Yes that is correct.I didn't use to have a angle grinder and so I didn't want to eat up my belts cleaning up bars between welds so I would just cut and fold and weld again.Heck it works for me.
When I hammer on the edge of my billets the edges are always thicker than the center on the sides then I hammer the sides and flatten the wider edges smooth and this just stretches my billet for me,guess it is due to the fact that I am using stretching dies only on my power hammer.
Bruce
 
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