Scale shrinkage

PocketEdge

PocketEdge

Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
566
Well for about the last month or so I have been watching the scales on a couple of my knives shrink up due to the winter dry air inside the house and possibly due to thier new home inside a display cabinet. I have never noticed before until this year, this happening. A new knife, a GEC stag dogleg started to show scale shrinkage and has now started to level out. It shrunk the thickness of a fingernail. I felt it first before I saw it. I soaked it in some mineral oil and even put a vacuum on it to no avail.

Has anyone else experienced this? The cabinet they are in has LED lights so there is very little heat but I know it is dry in the house. Does anyone use a humidifier just for thier knives? Am I alone here?
 
I've noticed it on a couple knives this winter because it's been unusually dry.

I saw a post by Kerry Hampton a while back where he recommended Formby's lemon oil (you can buy it at Walmart) for stag, bone and ivory, I've been using that and it seems to work.

I've also heard of people putting a cup of water in display cases to add humidity.
 
I soak all my stag & bone handled knives in mineral oil overnight 1/year. I have a 1/2 gal. mason jar 1/2 full of mineral oil that just gets reused year after year (it's brimming once I get all my slippies in there). Wood handled knives get rubbed down w/ Howards "Feed & Wax' (beeswax & orange oil) and stacked leather handles & sheaths get Obenauf's...

Note, some dyed bone handles may leach a little dye when you soak in mineral oil. When I remove them, I let then sit (open & upside down) on a towl for a day before I wipe them down. I do not rub the scales on day 1 as I don't want to remove any color. Over the years, my mineral oil is tinged red, but not all that much. I have stag and jigged bone handles that still look new (no noticable shrinkage) that are now over 25 years old. I live in WI -- and my basement (where some knives are stored) reads 35% humidity as I type this.
 
My buffalo horn GEC scales have shrunk slightly. Maybe I should try the mineral oil trick.
 
So if the shrinkage has occurred, which in my case it has, will either the mineral oil soak or Formby's lemon oil bring it back to full size?
 
Honestly, no. Shrinkage/expansion is going to happen with natural scales...just comes with the territory. The best thing you can do is control the humidity level where you keep your knives. Every winter, every one of my bone, stag and ivory knives (and to some extent, the wood ones) shrink and I bite my lip hoping they won't crack at the pins. I keep several cups of water with my knives and when needed, put a humidifier in the room. I even know some people who keep their valuable knives in a humidor where they can control the amount of moisture, which I think is the best idea I've heard although I haven't tried it.

Mineral oil isn't going to do anything. I've dunked ivory and stag knives in it for a month.

It's not so much the area of the country that you live in, but more the location where the knife was made v. where it is kept now. If a knife was handled were made in a high humidity environment, and they are now in a low humidity environment, they are going to shrink...and the shrinkage will probably be more pronounced in the winter.

When I have a custom made with natural scales, when possible I will either try and supply my own material or have the maker send the material to me for a couple weeks to let it acclimatize to Tennessee ot minimize movement down the road.

Someone else can way in...just my opinion
 
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I agree with Campbell. Trying to do something about humidity is the real answer. As for all this mineral oil soaking, uh uh! Not had good results with this at all, not only dye leeching but colour change as well- it wrecks CASE Bonestag 6.5, unless you like greyish scales:eek: I also suspect mineral oil softens stag and bone adversely, won't help much with shrink that is. However, wiping down with mineral oil is fine, i just steer clear of soaking it.

Kerry H sent me some Lemon Oil (can't get it here in EU) and this works very well indeed as a cleaner and possible aid against shrinkage, certainly a must for bone handles.

Lately I've been experimenting with humidity levels as it concerns me a lot. Here in Scandinavia it's very cold outside -22c today and almost dry and very hot indoors and deadly dry, under 18% humidity according to my meter. Add to this the return of powerful sunshine coming through windows at low angle.. This is horrid news indeed for knife handles of all sorts, EVEN micarta! My collection is mainly in one room where I do my writing and sometimes sleep there, they are in chests, on the desk,or in cupboards-mainly the fixed blades. Many show shrinkage in the winter, the fixed blades are the worst in some cases. Queen Cutlery Barehead in bone and a skinner in maplewood you can feel the rough edges of the tangs as the scales retreat. So too, the expensive Bark Rivers in allegedly 'stabilized' wood and, some of their micarta as well! This particularly surprised me. The pocket knives vary, I have to say that Queen seem to fare best and CASE bone-their stag is not so good. GEC show the greatest tendency to shrink though.

With all this going on I decided to buy a humidity machine and see if there's any improvements. You simply pour water in and switch on, it gently vapourizes into the room around 4 litres overnight. The results were most impressive, humidity went up to around 38-55% which is the ideal, after 3 days of overnight vapours ALL handles showed a marked improvement, especially the fixed blades which returned to normal. The plants seem to like it too and my eyes and nose/Throat all stopped feeling dry and irritated. Low humidity is bad news for all living things it seems:D If you can measure humidity levels and raise them, it will prevent shrink I'm sure of it, and shrinkage always carries the risk of warping or cracking, not good:thumbdn:
 
My hunch is that the scale materials shrink shortly after manufacture, due to the heat produced when shaping them
 
My experience pretty much follows Campbell's. I bit the bullet sometime ago and bought a separate safe for my knives and turned it into a controlled environment. A giant humidor basically. It is fully automatic and requires nothing on my part except keeping the water tanks full. About once a month during winter. I can set it for any level of humidity I desire and it holds it constant. All parts were readily available at a cost of around $150. Electricity required. I have seen some rather nice looking end tables and cabinets designed for cigar storage with this system as well.
 
has anyone tried light corn oil soak. let drip, dry & oil blades again with your lube choice. i live in austin, tex. so far no shrinkage.--dennis
 
I haven't had a problem so far -- knock on wood.:) We heat with a Monitor heater (kerosene) and kick in the main house furnace when the temperature dips down into the teens and below zero. We also have a wood stove (for power outages) and when I do heat the house with our wood stove, I place a gallon size, stainless steel, pitcher of water on top of the wood stove to put moisture in the air as the heat from a wood stove is very very dry. The water in the pitcher boils and that roiling puts the moisture in the air.

We don't have many power outages but when we do, I kick in our generator and to lessen the load on it, we don't use the electric stove/range but use the wood stove to cook on. For some reason, breakfast taste a whole lot better when cooked on a wood stove.:thumbup:

I've heard of the Formby's Lemon Oil before. I think someone said Tony Bose recommended it. I think I'll give it a try to see how it does. No soaking!!!!:eek: Just a light wipe-down.
 
Just my opinion again, but it really doesn't matter where you live. What matters is the conditions of the place of manufacter v. the conditions where you live. I've taken Tony's advice (as mentioned above) and use lemon oil on my stag. Although I do not think it prevents shrinkage, it does treat and condition the stag and keep it from drying out. Treating natural material with oil is a good thing to do, but it won't absorb into the material enough to create expansion. It works as a surface coating. Last night after I did my last post, I realized that I had a Chamblin backpocket that I had totally forgotten about sitting in mineral oil. It had been in there for over 8 months. I pulled it out, the color was a bit off, but the shrinkage had not been fixed a bit (after 8 months).
 
cnas122 said:
Just my opinion again, but it really doesn't matter where you live. What matters is the conditions of the place of manufacter v. the conditions where you live. I've taken Tony's advice (as mentioned above) and use lemon oil on my stag. Although I do not think it prevents shrinkage, it does treat and condition the stag and keep it from drying out. Treating natural material with oil is a good thing to do, but it won't absorb into the material enough to create expansion. It works as a surface coating. Last night after I did my last post, I realized that I had a Chamblin backpocket that I had totally forgotten about sitting in mineral oil. It had been in there for over 8 months. I pulled it out, the color was a bit off, but the shrinkage had not been fixed a bit (after 8 months).
Click to expand...

Along those lines keep in mind that some manufactures seal/apply a coating to their bone/stag handles and unless you remove the seal/coating, nothing will penetrate into the bone/stag to facilitate treatment.
 
IMO,best bet is to lemon oil occasionally & just let them be. Let them do what they are gonna do.
Handles scales that swell one time,may shrink another time,or visa versa.

But this whole deal right here,plus the fact that,with all BS aside,the natural handles cannot compete with micarta & the like,for actual serious useage.
So,I personally came to grips with the fact,I love the stag,the bone,the ivory & the burl & exoctic wood,but for me I am now collecting ,and using,strictly micarta knives (and of course I have exceptions in my possession)

But not to get off topic,and or hijack,I will say this...
I once owned a GEC real stag (no shield) ,Big Jack.I purchased it pre owned.
The stag was swelled above the bolsters,like it "puffed up" . That might have happened due to rinsing in water to get sticky apple juice cleaned of,and or a combo it was a humid spell here on the Island.Whatever the case,I decided to sand the stag down,I modded it out,buffed it a little by hand & it seemed even a nicer feel in hand. The number on the bolster was now gone,but I did not mind that. Anyhow,three or four days later,I'm looking at this knife,I had put aside,carrying something different & I see,the stag un swelled & now was below the bolsters!
So that's why I say,lemon oil occasionally & leave it be to do its thing. Alot of natural materials are gonna move all over the place,in certain conditions & situations
-Vince :)
 
Ive never soaked anything,but i use lemon oil and baby oil (mineral) as a wipe down/cleaner.Its generally pretty humid here and ive never really had a problem other than some horn moving,trying to recurl.That can happen anywhere anytime.
 
I'm with you on this Vince.
Natural materials have the potential to move in certain enviromental conditions and best not to get too paraniod about things. I find soaking in mineral/lemon oils can turn some lovely light coloured bone opaque! I once soaked a really nice set of natural amber stag slabs in mineral oil (to prevent any future cracks/shrinkage) and "lost" virtually all that lovely amber colour out of it! Put them on the radiator to dry out in the hope of the colour coming back. Have noticed that it is just starting to return - after 11 YEARS !!!!!
On my Bose knives, I just put a small drop of mineral oil on the pins, maybe once or twice a year on the assumption that most cracks originate from there.

Colin
 
If you could see,in hand,or in a picture,shrunken scales on a 100+ year old knife,or so,that was used but taken care of,this would help you see how insignificant some shrinkage on a modern knife is.
It also makes you wonder,was the material quality better,back then ? Or ?
-Vince
 
Ouch!!!
tbose-458boneAKhunter1-3.jpg
 
Wow -- not nearly as many fans of soaking as when I posted my experience with doing this ~ 6 years ago. I do agree it might not be the end all -- and perhaps it might not even be a good idea in theory. However, my knives all still look good and if they have "discolored" at all, I can't tell. I have no scale-bolster gaps to speak of and I plan to continue what has worked for me. YMMV, of course. Given what has been said thus far, I guess one would have to reccommend doing "less" (wipe down) rather than "more" (soaking) - just to play it safe.
 
VCM3 said:
If you could see,in hand,or in a picture,shrunken scales on a 100+ year old knife,or so,that was used but taken care of,this would help you see how insignificant some shrinkage on a modern knife is.
It also makes you wonder,was the material quality better,back then ? Or ?
-Vince
Click to expand...

Better materials (more hand picked by the cutlers)and better chemicals for the dyes and stabilizers that are banned for bs environmental reasons now.Tested and Double X Case bone is way better than today.Stag is prettier too.Also,a used knife would have held up better than one that just sat because of oils from the hand.(JMHO)Ive read the old cutlers used to really take pride in the work and would stash great looking material for their best patterns.Worm groove bone was a treasure.
 
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