Scandi grind vs. "others" - The philosophy of use?

[bomba_finland]

Hello to everyone,
As you can see I'm new to this forum. I'm from Finland. Originally my interest into knives derives from my passion for outdoor activities. Until these days, I have been using basic (cheap-ish) Finnish knives, puukkos. They have all been scandi grinds. I have a Marttiini, Roselli and a couple of Ahtis. The job I mostly need them for is all sort of food preparation and wood work, like firewood and making poles for a shelter.

I have bought some not-Finnish blades, like Spydercos, Kershaw, Kizlyar, CRKT, Gerber. I dont't know how you call these knives, but they sure are not scandi grinds. They are nice in some tasks to have around, especially I like the Kizlyar DV-2 and it's weight in heavier woodwork and the Spyderco's full-flat-ground blades in various cutting tasks. However I have noticed that in those tasks I need a knife most, the basic scandi grind puukko is worlds better than any of these other type of knives. Whether it be food preparing or making wood shavings to start a fire there is no match to a cheap puukko. Any work that includes handling wood a $10 puukko outperforms all of the knives I own, ranging from $10-$200.

So the question is, what is the philosophy of use of these not-scandi blades? What do you guys use them for and why do you find them to be top performers? Why are the edges ground the way they are? Does the difference between the knives come from the steel used, or is it the edge angle? All my Finnish puukkos are unspesified carbon steel, others are 8Cr13Mov, AUS8, different grade 440's, Kizlyar's Russian 65x13 etc.

I'm interested to hear about your points of view in this subject!

 

[Zanuha]

The other grinds are considered easier to strop and more durable AFAIK.

 

[idaho]

Double bevel, or "standard knife grind" has two large benefits over scandi.

It is much less prone to get severely damaged, and even if damaged, it can be repaired without removing so much steel.

In other words - with scandi it is quite possible to get 1mm deep cavity in the edge, and to repair that you will need to remove a lot of steel.
With standard (lets say 20 degree) edge - such cavity is less probable and even if you manage to make a crack that large, you can repair it faster.

And also I think that full flat grind is better in food processing than scandi - scandi gets thick way too fast.

 

[Rich S]

I've been a collector, user, crafter of "Scandi" knives, mostly Finnish puukko for many years. I hone mine to what I call a modified Scandi grind - flat from ridge line to edge with a very slight micro edge bevel. IMHO, a true flat to the edge grind is too easily nicked and doesn't hold up well for general use; also needs resharpening often. A true flat to the edge with a thin-ish blade is fine if you're doing brain surgery I've found a modified Scandi grind is the best (for me anyway); easiest to resharpen, holds a good edge, etc. I prefer the Lauri progression tempered blades although the Lauri carbon is fine too. The Helle laminated blades are excellent. I have several Ahti, Woodsknife, Wood Jewel, Roselli, and others. I use a few laminated Mora in the kitchen. All work fine and seldom need resharpening. I feel it is the steel as well as the bevel/grind that makes for a good overall working knife. Some of my knives from my collection and a few of those I've crafted are linked in my sig file below.

-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Stein, PhD

Nordic Knife Links and Knives
http://home.earthlink.net/~rsblade/nordic.htm

"Never go anywhere without a knife"
- Leroy Jethro Gibbs
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[Ankerson]

For pure cutting and slicing I like a very thin flat grind over anything else.

I am talking about VERY thin and at high hardness and good steels in custom knives here.

I have cut with blades ground to .004" - .006" behind (Above) the edge, that's as thin as printer paper and didn't have any chipping issues or other problems, but then I am not prying, battening or twisting the blades either.

With a good steel at High Hardness with a great HT they will cut for a very long time.

Depends on how you use the knife.

 

[Shotgun]

How thick are the puuko's you're using? I've found that scandi grinds on anything from 1/8" thick and up are extremely poor performers on any task that involves the knife moving through the material being cut. For instance when cutting a potatoe with my Koster bushcraft, 1/8" thick scandi, the knife wedges and splits the potatoe apart rather than cutting it. The double bevel design like you find on your spyderco is there so that a knife can be made thicker while allowing the knife to cut more efficiently. Also, I wonder if you're having better performance from your scandi's because they take less skill to sharpen properly. It's much easier to keep a consistant sharpening angle with a scandi because you can just lay the stone on the bevel.

 

[zyhano]

It's much easier to keep a consistant sharpening angle with a scandi because you can just lay the stone on the bevel.

that's a big bonus.
I don't have that much experience with scandi grinds but I have a mora knife with a scandi grind that easily outcuts my sebenza and others when doing woodwork.
The more frequent sharpening will be offset by having a knife with (subjectively) better cutting characteristics.

Welcome to the forum. I was in Finland (near pello, raanujarvi lake) last march and have made a trip report and a review of the ESEE junglas there, check it out (and of course, not a scandi grind)
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[bomba_finland]

Thank you all for very informative answers!

Many of you say that full flat grind is excellent with food preparation, and I totally agree with that. My point about the goodness of scandi grind was mostly based on the fact that I have found them to be reasonably good all-around performers, maybe not best in all tasks. I usually only have one smaller knife with me in the woods and that's why I'm looking for an all-rounder. Smaller blade is of course accompanied by some bigger tool like an axe, vesuri (a Finnish type of machete, heavy but not very long), or recently the Kizlyar DV-2 which is almost like a machete

Also, I wonder if you're having better performance from your scandi's because they take less skill to sharpen properly. It's much easier to keep a consistant sharpening angle with a scandi because you can just lay the stone on the bevel.

There might be truth in this. I keep my knives and puukkos sharp, but I am not a sharpening guru nor do I have any great eguipment for that. A couple of diamond sharpeners and a couple of stones. My wife says though that our kitchen knives have recently become dangerously sharp because she bleeds more often nowadays, so I guess practise makes perfect

Zyhano, I watched a few minutes of your film but don't have time to see it all right now. It looks great though and I surely will get back to it later today!

 

[macmiddlebrooks]

Bomba, I couldn't agree more concerning a thin scandi. Here's one just made for me loosely based on the puukko design. It does feature a micro bevel.

 

[A.L.]

Scandigrind is very suitable for scandinavian outdoors due the soft wood that we have here. I haven't ever "severely chipped" a puukko of any kind in my life.
I understand very well that it's propably not the best grind for hard wood dominated areas.

 

[bomba_finland]

Thanks to all of you, now I understand many things better than before.

Macmiddlebrooks, that is a beatiful knife!

I hone mine to what I call a modified Scandi grind - flat from ridge line to edge with a very slight micro edge bevel. IMHO, a true flat to the edge grind is too easily nicked and doesn't hold up well for general use ---

Rich S, thanks for the idea. One of my Ahtis chipped slightly yesterday and while fixing it I tried this "modified scandi grind" of yours. I was very pleased with the result. There was no cutting ability lost but the edge indeed looks and feels like it's going to be more durable than the original one.

I was in Finland (near pello, raanujarvi lake) last march and have made a trip report and a review of the ESEE junglas there, check it out ---

Zyhano, I watched your videos. Great stuff, I'm glad you enjoyed your visit in Finland! Here's a couple of pics of a snow home me and my friend built last winter.

 

[nevermind35]

Wow awesome job on that snow shelter! Looks like its right out of a text book.

Edit: By the way, since you're new here you might not know about the outdoor community here on the forums. HERE'S a link to the outdoor/survival sub forum. There's also a sub forum for outdoor related gear. Check them out, I think you'll enjoy it.

 

[Poez]

IMHO scandi grind is very good for cutting wood. It also works well for meat cutting and preparation. If these are the work you do the most - than you do not need to look any further. For any other kind of work scandi is does not have the particular edge - you will probably find that "all other type of knives" perform better than scandi.
At least that is my own impression.

 

[Danbo]

For pure cutting and slicing I like a very thin flat grind over anything else.

I am talking about VERY thin and at high hardness and good steels in custom knives here.

I have cut with blades ground to .004" - .006" behind (Above) the edge, that's as thin as printer paper and didn't have any chipping issues or other problems, but then I am not prying, battening or twisting the blades either.

With a good steel at High Hardness with a great HT they will cut for a very long time.

Depends on how you use the knife.

No argument here. I agree totally with all that. Flat ground THIN for the win!

 

[zyhano]

Zyhano, I watched your videos. Great stuff, I'm glad you enjoyed your visit in Finland! Here's a couple of pics of a snow home me and my friend built last winter.

man, that's a pretty nice snow home It's pretty cool to have winters like that? whereabout are you situated? North/south?

 

[bomba_finland]

Wow awesome job on that snow shelter! Looks like its right out of a text book.

Edit: By the way, since you're new here you might not know about the outdoor community here on the forums. HERE'S a link to the outdoor/survival sub forum. There's also a sub forum for outdoor related gear. Check them out, I think you'll enjoy it.

Thank you for the compliment and the hint. I'll check that section for sure

man, that's a pretty nice snow home It's pretty cool to have winters like that? whereabout are you situated? North/south?

Thank you. Yes I really do enjoy the winters in Finland. I love to fool around in the snowy fields and forests no matter the way of moving, be it snow shoes, skis or just shoes. Guess I'm a child forever when it comes to snowy things Right now I live in south-western Finland but as soon as I graduate I leave the coastal area and move somewhere in Middle, Eastern or Northern Finland. The winters usually suck in my current location unfortunately.