Scandi grind with a microbevel

[dipbait]

I recently purchased two Moras. A carbon and stainless. Neither blade was shaving sharp. I also noticed a shiny edge , a slight micro bevel on both. I tried sharpening with a diamond stone to create a single bevel, but it was taking to much effort. So I just used ceramic rods and put a sharp micobevel on them. They are now shaving, newsprint slicing sharp. They whittle wood at much shallower angle than all other knives I have tried. I cut myself twice cleaning them. They are decent sharp.

Question. Is a scandi grind with a microbevel as good a blade as a complete scandi grind?

 

[Roger999]

A scandi grind without a microbevel will be slightly sharper, but will have a bit less edge retention. I personally wouldn't go with a microbevel because you will have to grind the primary bevel thinner every couple of sharpenings to prevent the micro-bevel becoming a regular bevel, I find the edge retention of scandi moras are just fine as they are.

 

[Dog of War]

Expanding on one of Roger's comments, a microbevel is necessary on Moras for best edge retention. I have worked quite a bit with different Mora of Sweden (Frosts and Eriksson) blades, including Sandvik 12C27 stainless and both regular and laminated carbon steel, and have found you need a microbevel of 17-20 degrees/side to get the best edge holding. This really isn't surprising, since the primary bevel runs about 10 deg/side; I have found no steels that will hold a fine edge well at such angles, at a minimal you need the very edge to be 15 deg/side or better.

Here's a link to some of my early work posted here ... as you can see, these knives are good performers:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433156

 

[gunmike1]

A scandi grind without a microbevel will be slightly sharper, but will have a bit less edge retention. I personally wouldn't go with a microbevel because you will have to grind the primary bevel thinner every couple of sharpenings to prevent the micro-bevel becoming a regular bevel, I find the edge retention of scandi moras are just fine as they are.

Well, if you don't microbevel every time you sharpen you are working a very large bevel on a scandi grind every time you sharpen, where you would only have to do that every 5 or so times with a microbevel. The microbevel will add edge retention, and take only a minute or two at most (it only takes a few strokes per grit, so the time will depend on how fine of a finish you want to sharpen to) to get fully sharp, which for me would be hair whittling. Then, when it thickens a bit it will take you a tiny bit more time than you would normally spend sharpening the whole bevel to remove the microbevel. If you have any sort of decent coarse stone it shouldn't take too long, and in the net the microbevel would have saved you a lot of time and given you better edge retention IMO. At least that is my experience with a Spyderco Endura that I turned into a scandi grind.

Mike

 

[theonew]

Here's a link to some of my early work posted here ... as you can see, these knives are good performers:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433156

Interesting work, never saw that thread, thanks for the link

 

[elma]

when I made bushcraft blades with a scandi grinds, I used to flat grind all of them, this question came up on british blades, so I tested two of my blades from the same batch and the one with the micro bevel cut the same but kept its edge much longer

Ian

 

[Hawkings]

You'd be surprised how few true scandi grinds comes from Scandinavian

 

[Daniel Koster]

1 - I also noticed a shiny edge , a slight micro bevel on both....

2 - Question. Is a scandi grind with a microbevel as good a blade as a complete scandi grind?

#1 - could be from stropping....not saying it is...but my scandi-ground knives are perfectly flat with a zero edge and yet they appear to have a "micro bevel" from stropping the edge.

#2 - Very subjective question, but a good one. You really can't beat a zero-edge (scandi) for push-cuts in wood....the edge is more keen (if done right). So, I guess my answer is....it kinda depends on the cutting task it's being used for.

A scandi grind without a microbevel will be slightly sharper, but will have a bit less edge retention.

This is a generalization that may apply to Moras, but not to all scandi-ground knives. The one comment I hear from bushcraft customers (vs my other knives) is about the great edge retention. In my case, it's probably because of the steel (CPM 3V), and not necessarily just the scandi-grind. I'm not a knife-testing-expert....I just get a lot of feedback and try to pay attention to it.

...have found you need a microbevel of 17-20 degrees/side to get the best edge holding. This really isn't surprising, since the primary bevel runs about 10 deg/side; I have found no steels that will hold a fine edge well at such angles, at a minimal you need the very edge to be 15 deg/side or better.

I use CPM 3V hardened to 60-61 HRc and grind at 12.5 degrees per side...and have made several hundred knives this way. But I do agree that 10 degrees is not a useful angle. That said, 15 degrees is too much for me....too "blunt" and not keen enough. Fortunately I am able to use steels that allow me to get away with that angle (1095, O1 & CPM 3V). And edge retention (wear resistance) has been very good, with no chipping...or even micro-chipping.



This is a great question, though...and should generate some interesting discussion. :thumbup:

Dan