Scandi sharpening with water stones? help

JediKnight86

JediKnight86

Joined
Jul 9, 2003
Messages
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So plain and simple, you sharpen Scandi's by laying them on the stone flat on the bevel. So a shiny new blade that needs a touchup is instantly marred up in order to maintain the true zero grind. The slightest tilt up turns the original edge into a micro bevel and you no longer have a true zero grind.

I'm not sure I like this. Guess it's OK on cheap Mora's, but with the expensive bushcraft knives that could really suck. I just tore up my 511 going a little overboard with the sharpening practice on a new blade. This one will have to be a beater now and I'll get a couple more. $8, why not? But when I get a $200+ one I won't know what to do!

But what I DON'T understand is how Ray Mears does this method in his video and the blade still looks shiny!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We1-CDNaSFs
 
What he did was go up to finer and finer grits. That's why it is shiny. This is no different for other knives. If you regularly maintain your knife then it's just 10 strokes on each stone and doesn't take long at all.

Scandi edges are the easiest to sharpen once you get the hang of it. It does take longer to repair damaged edges, though.
 
yeah i dont really get scandi grinds

i inherited a mora before i even knew what a scandi was, now it has a bevel edge on it :(
 
FTO_dude said:
yeah i dont really get scandi grinds

i inherited a mora before i even knew what a scandi was, now it has a bevel edge on it :(
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Oh the monstrosity!

For Scandi grinds, you just lie the edge flat on the stone and push forward. It is like honing a razor.
 
As you can see at 1:43 in the clip, he doesn't even have full contact with the bevel onto the stone, so he really isn't that good. That being said, he gets the results he needs. It doesn't have to be perfect.

There are many ways of using a flat stone, but one must always practice. I drag my edge on the stone instead of cutting into the stone. It's easier to see that the bevel is flat against the stone and it won't bite into the stone by mistake either.

Like I said, it's all about practice. Just go slow, watch what you're doing minutely and have patience. It's really not that hard at all. In fact, I find it easier to sharpen a scandi than to sharpen a regular v-edge on whatever grind.

Does that make sense?
 
cotdt said:
What he did was go up to finer and finer grits. That's why it is shiny. This is no different for other knives. If you regularly maintain your knife then it's just 10 strokes on each stone and doesn't take long at all.

Scandi edges are the easiest to sharpen once you get the hang of it. It does take longer to repair damaged edges, though.
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I know how to polish by moving up with grits, I go to the same 6000 but it still doesn't look that evenly shiny. You can still see plenty of scratches.

stoffi said:
As you can see at 1:43 in the clip, he doesn't even have full contact with the bevel onto the stone, so he really isn't that good. That being said, he gets the results he needs. It doesn't have to be perfect.

There are many ways of using a flat stone, but one must always practice. I drag my edge on the stone instead of cutting into the stone. It's easier to see that the bevel is flat against the stone and it won't bite into the stone by mistake either.

Like I said, it's all about practice. Just go slow, watch what you're doing minutely and have patience. It's really not that hard at all. In fact, I find it easier to sharpen a scandi than to sharpen a regular v-edge on whatever grind.

Does that make sense?
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I know I need a diamond plate because they stay flat. Both my 1000 and 6000 stones are concave from use. I know I can get them sharp just by tilting up a little, but trying to get back that perfect zero edge is proving difficult. My Craftline all around glides through wood much easier bc I've messed with the edge much less.

No worries I'll get the hang of it and I'm going to get some more of these for practice. But the obsessing with sharpening is frustrating!
 
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Make sure coarse grit stone grain does not remain when moving
into higher grain stone. Wash both the knife and your hands well
and change the water.
If you already know about it, please forgive me.
 
If your stones are concave, you can rub them down with sandpaper on a flat surface. Once you've gotten them flat again, you can rub 'em down again with some finer sandpaper, so as to get rid of any coarser particles left on the stones from the sandpaper.
 
If you look at all old Scandinavian knives...ones sharpened in Scandinavia I mean...the bevels all look scratched up. That is how that works.
 
HoosierQ said:
If you look at all old Scandinavian knives...ones sharpened in Scandinavia I mean...the bevels all look scratched up. That is how that works.
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That's something I found out the hard way the first time I did a full polish on a scandi blade.
 
Scandi blades are often workhorses; so, people don't care about a fine polish, since they're constantly being sharpened after use.
 
I can understand the OPs concern about scratches on a high end knife, but chances are if you have a knife that you are that worried about scratching, you will take the extra steps to maintain it. I get into near polished finishes with my 6000 water stone and its a cheapo. Lighten up the pressure in you last few strokes between stones, and a couple of passes on a strop will bring the sheen back.
 
JediKnight86 said:
Both my 1000 and 6000 stones are concave from use. I know I can get them sharp just by tilting up a little, but trying to get back that perfect zero edge is proving difficult.
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You need to flatten your stones... you can't effectively sharpen a flat bevel with a curved surface, especially a knife with a wider bevel. Fix this, and I'll bet your results will improve.

cbw
 
I have had real good luck with my Moras...even the stainless ones...holding the bevel flat. With Mora you'll find that some of them are a little wavy and the grind pattern reflects that. The last one I did, I kept it on the stone (a brand new Nortion combo oilstone - totally flat) until I ironed out the waves. If you keep at it, even if you don't go to a polish, you can end up with a very uniform looking bevel...allbeit no longer a polished one.
 
I figured living with the scratches is normal and inevitable. I know I can get a mirror polish, I've done it before, just takes a lot more time that Mears video shows. Also, I don't have a slurry stone. Murray didn't recommend them in his DVD.

Also, Murray Carter said in his DVD don't bother flattening the stones, just work the ends that aren't concave and it will flatten itself. But in the case of the Scandi I guess I need to. I also should get a diamond plate to use before the 1000 grit stone, get things real even and fresh.
 
JediKnight86 said:
Also, Murray Carter said in his DVD don't bother flattening the stones, just work the ends that aren't concave and it will flatten itself. But in the case of the Scandi I guess I need to. I also should get a diamond plate to use before the 1000 grit stone, get things real even and fresh.
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Actually, in one of videos, he says to flatten it once, then maintain it by watching for, and working the high spots. If you're to the point of concave though, I really think it would help to start with a good flat stone.

cbw
 
cbwx34 said:
Actually, in one of videos, he says to flatten it once, then maintain it by watching for, and working the high spots. If you're to the point of concave though, I really think it would help to start with a good flat stone.

cbw
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10-4:thumbup:
 
FTO_dude said:
yeah i dont really get scandi grinds

i inherited a mora before i even knew what a scandi was, now it has a bevel edge on it :(
Click to expand...

It's really not that hard to keep the correct angle because it's almost the same as sharpening the full face of a high rise flat grind. Where as if you are sharpening the secondary bevel on a flat grind there is a lot less surface area for you to feel where the edge is laying flat.
 
I have experience with just one. The first time I worked it on the waterstones I caught on that it wasn't going to be as easy as imagined. The factory grind was wavy so the waterstones just scuffed up the hight points and left the factory polish in the low spots. Very nasty looking. I took a coarse DMT and worked out the wavyness. This took a long time!

I think the factory edges are applied with a belt, so when the end-user puts the edge on a flat stone it is going to reveal the wavyness left by the belt. It isn't just a cosmetic issue, cuz the stones won't correctly contact the cutting edge in some spots due to the wavyness.

Finally, I found it difficult to actually grind the flat bevels and keep them flat. They are not really "flat planes" since there is some curve in the profile and two flat planes cannot intersect to form a curved edge. So really it is more like flat ribbons and the stroke on the stones must be rolled to follow the curved edge profile.

I finished the bevels with a stone that would leave a muddy finish to help blend the looks and hide some of the imperfections. If you want to finish up to a polish with flat stones it would take a lot of skill and a lot of time.
 
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