Scandi vs. Flat grind

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rprocter

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my understanding is that a Scandi grind is best suited for "bushcraft" or "camp" type uses.
given 2 identical knives except one with a Scandi grind and the other with a Flat grind (and secondary edge grind), is there a real world functional difference ?
it would seem that in theory, the Scandi would be less prone to edge chipping or deforming as there is more steel immediately behind the edge; but that it would be more prone to binding in cutting sticks, say,thicker than 1/2".
but is this so ?
would a Flat grind with a "sensible" edge bevel (say 20 degrees per side or greater) be superior for "sensible" (i.e. not extreme) bushcraft use, in that the edge should hold well and binding would be less of an issue ?
all this assumes high quality steel, proper heat treat, well made.
under what circumstances might a Scandi grind out-preform a Flat grind ?
thanks; thinking of getting my first Scandi grind (custom) but need to justify it.
roland
 
I have basically no experience of flat grind, but I have cut down small trees and made walking sticks with puukko, wich are scandi grinded (no need to buy 400 dollar beater for that). My experience with even basic carbon steel scandis in woodworking and bushcrafting above all.

Scandi grind might seem fragile when you think of it (it might be not that suitable for non-wood though) but mine have lasted over months of regular use without even considering to sharpen the thing. Buy a puukko or mora and you can't find a knife that beats it in bushcrafting no matter how flashy, gimmicky and "survival" the other knives are.
 
The only appealing aspect of the scandi grind is that it is basically a minimal stock removal "zero" grind... so you can use the grind as a "guide" of sorts when sharpening. My guess would be that it is quite robust! I would imagine that if you had a super hard steel, it would be an absolute horror to sharpen...having to remove metal from the entire grind, and all... I think this will be a GREAT thread with useful info from those who use them regularly!
 
archieblue said:
The only appealing aspect of the scandi grind is that it is basically a minimal stock removal "zero" grind... so you can use the grind as a "guide" of sorts when sharpening. My guess would be that it is quite robust! I would imagine that if you had a super hard steel, it would be an absolute horror to sharpen...having to remove metal from the entire grind, and all... I think this will be a GREAT thread with useful info from those who use them regularly!
Click to expand...

I got a Koster Bushcraft kit knife in CPM3v and I was worried about the same thing. But as soon as I got it I realized Scandi ground knives are a Breeze to sharpen.
 
How so?

I would opt for full flat on a performance basis, but there is something appealing about the looks and simplicity of the Scandi grinds. So much so that the last blade I ground has that style grind.
 
What it comes down to is the angle the edge is at. With Scandi's theyre usually quite acute, I think mora's for example are around 10-12 degrees per side, while a lot of flat ground knives are quite thick at the bevel and have edges around 20degrees per side. When working wood (primary cutting medium in bushcraft) the flatter you can lay the knife against the wood the better, when you have to lift the spine up higher to get the edge to dig in you loose a lot of control and power.
 
This can be a fairly contentious issue... From my experience, scandi grinds are too thick compared to a good flat grind and do bind more in more materials. Some people really like them, I don't. You could always get a cheap mora first, and see if you like that kind of a grind before laying down serious cash.
 
Well, i guess i'm going to find out how a true Scandi knife cuts. i did just "lay down some serious cash" and bought a custom.
would still appreciate hearing from those with experience using/sharpening/whatever, with Scandi grind knives.
roland
 
I have two knives that were sabre ground when I picked them up which I converted to Scandi grinds. I have used both of these knives extensively outdoors with great performance. I also have a jarveenpa puuko. The scandi grind is very easy to resharpen as long as you dont let it become really dull. If you touch it up regularly you will have no problems at all.

I also have on knife which is flat ground. It is however flat ground to a thin edge, then a secondary bevel. RAT RC-6, It is a fantastic cutter right out of the box. As time goes on I may convex the edge on this one.

It all truly comes down to edge geometry, followed by edge maintenance. It is much easier to keep a knife sharp than to reestablish an edge.
 
The Moras are the most obtuse of all scandi grind blades. Im not sure about typical uk bushcraft knives but I suspect they are close to Moras in grind angle. It's typical of Swedish knives to have 20 - 25 degree inclusive grind with no edge bevel. Finnish Puukkos tend to have 15 - 20 degree inclusive with the most common being right at 17 degrees. There is a difference which can be seen working with wood. With good steel and heat treat 17 degree inclusive is a wicked yet durable all-around performer. Due to Moras being seen as The scandi grinds it may in some cases lead to believe that they present the upper boundary of scandi grind performance. Which isn't really the case. Customs are great because the smith's experience and customer's needs can dictate what angle is optimal. And if edge robustness is of concern (for example due to early testing) a microbevel can be applied. It obviously hinders performance a little but really increases durability. Just remember to keep it micro.

If one wanted a double bevel flat grind to cut equally or better the primary edge bevel should be at around the same angle as the scandi grind. The flat secondary grind improves cutting in most materials but on wood carving the single bevel scandi has an edge due to increased control. Whether that control is of any significant advantage is a matter of personal opinion and experience. My double bevel blades with 25 degree primary edges applied do well enough on bushcraft oriented tasks too (but not like scandis). One thing to note is that in general double bevel flat grinds do better on chopping. That comes of importance on blades at over 6 inches as far as my testing shows.
 
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The 50 yo Canadian Belt Knife (DH Russell/Grohmann) was originally more of a sabre grind for bushcraft strength. A flat grind is now available because it is better suited for other tasks that don't require the robust strength of the sabre. Kitchen knives are typically flat ground. Hollow gound knives have there place but are arguably the weakest grind of all.

I class the Scandi as basically a sabre but without the secondary angle = easier to maintain angle on a stone and gives a thinner edge that can be super sharp for slicing but not as strong as a secondary edge. You can start with a scandi and add a fine secondary edge if you want a little more strength

IMO a convex edge is just about ideal for most tasks but not common on production knives because of extra work involved and also not achievable on conventional knife sharpening machines
 
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