Schrade 61 OT dulls soon after being sharpened

Tuna

Tuna

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Feb 17, 2019
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177
Hello,

I mostly lurk on the forum, but have been having an issue with a Schrade USA 61 OT that I was given a few months ago. The knife was unused at the time I received it and I really like the knife.

I've noticed the sheep foot blade dulls after briefly using it to open some boxes or cutting cardboard. I had been sharpening all of the blades using both stones of my Sharpmaker at the 40 degree angle and then stropping. I can get the blade sharp enough to easily and cleanly slice receipt paper. After a few cycles of the knife dulling and then re-sharpening it with the Sharpmaker, I decided to sharpen the sheep foot blade (and the other two blades) with a silicone carbide medium/fine stone. Starting with the medium side, I did 12 passes on one side of the blade, then 12 on the other side, then 10 passes each side, then 8, then 6, then 4. I don't know why I picked this method but it seemed like a good idea at the time. Repeated for the fine side of the stone, then stropped. All blades seemed razor sharp to me at this point.

Took the knife out to work today and opened about 4 boxes that were taped with that heavier duty packing tape that has the strands running the length of the tape with the sheep foot blade. Tried to see if the blade would still catch my thumbnail and it would not.

Is it my sharpening technique? I'm fairly confident I held the angle consistent enough with the SiC stone but I consider myself a novice sharpener. Does Schrade steel on the USA made 61 OTs not stay sharp as long? My Victorinox Cadet definitely holds an edge longer and I've only ever sharpened that with my Sharpmaker. If anyone has advice for what I could do differently or how I can get this blade to stay sharper longer I would appreciate it. All criticism welcome. Thanks.
 
The edge could be burnt from the factory grind or the heat treat could be off.

I would do a couple more complete sharpenings and see if that improves the edge holding.
 
I really can't judge your sharpening technique without having the blade in my hand but I can assure you that cardboard has so much glue in it that it will take most edges off quickly if you slice a bunch up. Tape is mostly glue too. Is this a new Schrade or an old one?
 
could be rolled burr

anyway, using lansky or sharpmaker following a standard recipe doesn't cut it pun intended. one needs to know (=see) the progress and act/adjust accordingly. same with cooking pasta, baking french fries or baking a pizza, one reads the instructions but in the end one does checks and decides and acts accordingly, no matter the instructions.
 
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drail said:
I really can't judge your sharpening technique without having the blade in my hand but I can assure you that cardboard has so much glue in it that it will take most edges off quickly if you slice a bunch up. Tape is mostly glue too. Is this a new Schrade or an old one?
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Not sure what year it's from. Says USA on the blade so it must have been produced quite a few years ago.
 
I'd try cleaning any glue off edge with solvent as glue will cover edge and make it seem dull.Second,that packing tape may have fiberglass strands in it that will dull a blade quickly.
 
Thanks, I'll make sure to wipe it down. I guess when the blade came up duller than I expected I assumed it was due to my lack of sharpening skill. Got a lot to learn..
 
Just realizing that puts you way ahead of most guys who think they know everything...... I am almost 70 years old and I'm definitely still learning. I learned that if I have to cut a bunch of cardboard to reach for the utility knife. Cardboard EATS fine edges quickly. I tend to save my good knives for food and such......
 
The only other thing I can think of which hasn't been mentioned, (or I missed), is a possible lingering burr which is folding over.
 
In your experiences, what causes a rolled burr and how can one detect an edge that has one?
 
After using, and cutting feel both sides of the edge. Does it feel rougher on one side, or the other.


When the bur folds over it will make one side catch or the other.
 
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Tuna said:
In your experiences, what causes a rolled burr and how can one detect an edge that has one?
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A rolled burr can make cutting something like paper behave erratically. Thin edges with burrs often can cut paper, even with some edge damage or imperfections. But, if you slice very slowly into the edge of a piece of thin, fine paper (phonebook pages, catalog pages, newsprint) and carefully watch, you might notice it either slips or snags momentarily in the paper, at some locations along the cutting edge. Do this repeatedly, and you'll likely see it again in the same areas along the edge. Use a Sharpie to mark those spots, and then focus on those areas for touch-up or refinement on your finishing stone and/or strop, with a very light touch. Very fine, rolled burrs usually don't take much touching up, to change the cutting behavior. So make just a light pass or two on the stone, then check the cutting behavior in paper again, to see if it's improved. After doing that and confirming improvement, use the blade again. If the erratic cutting behavior keeps coming back very soon after using it, that's a cue the edge may just be too thin & weak for the steel to support it. Sometimes edge-rolling is just about the steel being too soft to hold up at thin geometry.

( Edited to add: On a USA Schrade, I'd be surprised if the steel was too soft; they generally had a very good reputation for good heat treat to hardness levels somewhat above other mainstream cutlery brands in similar traditional patterns. )

Rolled burrs can also make the edge deflect in one direction or the other, in cutting paper. If you notice that the cut into the paper is consistently trying to steer the blade in an arc to one side or the other, that could be a sign of a rolled or leaning burr. The cutting will tend to steer to the side to which the burr leans. If the edge is clean and dead-straight (not rolled or leaning), then the cut should dive effortlessly in a straight line through the paper.
 
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The older ones with 1095 take and hold a great edge; I use mine for whittling. Schrade may have changed to a stainless steel, though. That said, cardboard will dull just about any ordinary steel and even super steels.
 
Schrade USA did switch to a stainless steel (420HC or similar) in their latter few years, just before closing their doors. It used to be, the stainless blades were marked 'SCHRADE +' (the '+' indicating stainless). But in the later few years, apparently some or most (maybe all) of their blades simply reverted to the SCHRADE mark, omitting the '+', and the 1095 blades were phased out.

Determining if a blade is 1095 is relatively easy, regardless of the marking. It will darken noticeably with a little bit of vinegar applied and left in place for a minute or three. More extreme if the vinegar is hot. Will also smell the acid/iron reaction in doing so. But with a stainless like 420HC or the 440A previously used in SCHRADE's older stainless knives, they won't be discolored at all by vinegar, nor will that very metallic smell be as noticeable.
 
Mine is definitely carbon steel. The clip blade got noticeably darker after cutting up some food.
 
Tuna said:
Mine is definitely carbon steel. The clip blade got noticeably darker after cutting up some food.
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You got one of the good ones. :thumbsup:

I have an older, 1970s-vintage 8 OT in their 1095, and a couple of their 25 OT Folding Hunters in similar or older vintage (one is a Schrade-Walden). Also a 108 OT (small stockman) in 1095. The steel's springy temper and edge-holding is the benchmark example to which I compare everything else. My favorite of all. :)
 
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Lots of good stuff in this thread. Thank you for all the replies. I will sharpen up the blade again with this new information in mind. Burr formation, removal and potential of rolling is fascinating stuff. Trying to read up on as much about it as I can from the threads that already exist.
 
Tuna said:
Lots of good stuff in this thread. Thank you for all the replies. I will sharpen up the blade again with this new information in mind. Burr formation, removal and potential of rolling is fascinating stuff. Trying to read up on as much about it as I can from the threads that already exist.
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Hang around here awhile longer, you will be shaving with that schrade.
 
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