Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
As I promised earlier in the week, here is the "rest-of-the-story" on the odd LB7 Pachmayer handled samples that came from the sample room at Schrade. Exactly how many of each ECO sample were made is undetermined, but two of each is a usual number to submit. The information I am providing here should suffice to allow you to determine where during the project your particular sample was submitted.
Schrade Pachmayr LB7 Research
In early December of 1983, The Schrade product manager initiated a new cooperative knife venture with Pachmayr Gun Works to produce a rubber handled version of the venerable LB7UH Schrade lockback knife. The effort began with a letter to Mr. Swinden dated December 7th, in which the Schrade Cutlery Product Manager related his speaking to the Pachmayr people at a recent show, and their enthusiastic response to his suggestion of putting their rubber handles on the LB7. It seems they had previously approached Buck Knives, but were unable to conclude a deal. He asked The Schrade Cutlery Ellenville General Manager to forward two sets of samples with production wood covers to Pachmayr for the LB7 and the LB5. He stated that they would make a mold and send them back some rubber covers to experiment with. This letter was copied to Henry B. Baer.
In late December, the ISC General manager sent the samples of covers, bolster scales,, a knife assembled without handles, and a finished knife, requesting a Pachmayr checkered grip similar in shape and thickness to the sample handles. A second embodiment was also mentioned. They wanted to explore the possibility of a wrap around grip similar to their pistol grips.
In early February of 1984, the Pachmayr Director of Sales and Marketing responded in a letter to the IKAC General Sales Manager in the N.Y.C. office with a preliminary price estimate of $1 per knife for two scales. He requested several more samples to prepare prototypes. He also mentioned that their designer was preparing some design alternatives for consideration. These would be the wrap around versions. He also mentioned that the Schrade designer (who turns out to be no less than our F.G., who evidently handled most in-house drafting chores as well as the commercial artwork) is preparing some drawings. The six grip design drawings prepared by Pachmayr were sent to the ISC General manager on February 7th. The Schrade product manager acknowledged receipt of the drawings and promised review on the 14th of February, and confirmed shipping by the ISC General Manager of a sample to check their slab mold.
The ISC General Manager sent Pachmayr two knives assembled to the stage of ready for cover attachment with a brass template in early April, 1984. He gave them some dimensional details and indicated the handles were to have the same basic shape as the imitation stag handles on earlier provided samples.
At the beginning of May, 1984 letter from the Schrade product manager to the ISC General manager, he indicated his enthusiasm for the finger grooved design prototype then produced, and stated “Actually, I am so impressed that’s the version we will buy from Pachmayr..”. He then went on to detail the information he needed to get the project underway, cost per finger grooved handle pair, quantities of 25,000 and 100,000, handle texture molding design, available handle material colors (black, red, brown, green), e.t.a. of a sample set, samples with both brass bolsters and nickle silver bolsters, and sheath requirements. Also, he indicated the desire of Schrade to get an exclusive rights to the rubber handled knives from Pachmayr, suggesting the future addition of other patterns in the line. This was also copied to Schrade Ellenville General Manager and Henry Baer.
A mid-May, 1984 letter from the Vice President of Pachmayr to the ISC General Manager provided Schrade with quotes of prices and conditions. Detailed were given for the prices of the first 100,000 pcs. (50,000 knives), per piece price after the first 100,000, a guarantee of price for the first 200,000 knives or 18 months, available colors (black, brown, brick, forest green, or practically any color they wanted), a first sample delivery date (July 1, 1984), tooling costs, and production delivery timetable ( 60 days after sample approval). Also a firm order quantity, and initial payment amount, agreeing to allow both Schrade and Pachmayr names to appear on the knives, and finally, ownership of the tooling.
The ISC General Manager responded with a letter dated early June, 1984 with a purchase order and an agreement, and in mid-June, Pachmayr responded positively to the agreement, with the caveat that Pachmayr was currently producing hunting and fillet knives under their own brand, and wished to continue in that enterprise, as well as be free to expand their line if they so chose at a later date. They did agree not to manufacture grips for other cutlers. Sample deliver was estimated to be in late July.
At the end of July, 1984, The President of ISC expressed in a letter to the Schrade Cutlery Product Manager his thoughts on requesting that Pachmayr agree to abandon all of their own cutlery ventures upon consummation of a deal with ISC.
The sample knife was sent back to Pachmayr at the end of August, 1984, accompanied by a letter from the ISC General Manager explaining their having dressed the front bevel to 20 degrees to better match the bolster. They requested the proto mold be reshaped to reflect that change, and also to deepen the finger grooves, as well as add a 3/16" strip without checkering, to mold so as to be flush with the bolster.
A “Special Products/New Products Checklist” was issued in early January, 1985 for the Schrade LB7 Pachmayr knife. It specified nickle silver bolsters and molded on black rubber handle by Pachmayr, LB7 blade, black sheath. Undecided were the issues of a blade etch, exact tangstamp, and the assignment of a Schrade item number. It had a notation of “ready to ship August 1st”. An accompanying Schrade “fact sheet”, also dated the same, listed the item as “LB-7 Pachmayr”. This was a cost/profit/unit sales projection analysis. Expected sales projections were stated as “25,000-50,000" units.
At the end of January, 1985, the Imperial Schrade Corporation Product Manager sent a memo to the Vice President of Sales and Marketing at Pachmayr summing up a conversation they had while attending a cutlery show in Atlanta. The following points were made:
1. ISC would be sending revised artwork for the handle incorporating the Schrade logo and symbol, and requesting a handle sample of same for approval, to be followed by production orders from Rob Brown.
2. Requesting a quantity of mark side handle for incorporating into point of sale displays, to give customers the opportunity to feel the surface without having to handle the boxed inventory.
3. Mention of interest expressed by NYPD in the knives, and requesting a sample using the letters “NYPD” on the handle.
4. Suggesting a cooperative ad campaign with costs divided between Schrade and Pachmayr.
In a followup letter to the Pachmayr VP of Sales and Marketing dated early February, 1985, the ISC Product Manager gives an update of issues.
1. New artwork is en route and should arrive by the receipt of the letter.
2. Mentions Pachmayr’s difficulty in supplying the requested quantity of display handle parts, and asks for any scrap or trim to use.
3. Informs that he is working with the ad agency for a fall of 1985 campaign on the knife introduction.
Henry B. Baer sent out a letter to the company management working on the project the next day suggesting that it was important that Schrade’s own handle checkering pattern be used to differentiate their knives from the competitor’s, Buck, Gerber, and Western, all using simple checkering. He also felt that it was important to avoid promoting Pachmayr, as opposed to sharing the credit for the knife with them, suggesting several series names for them to trademark and use instead of the Pachmayr name. He felt that if the Pachmayr name must be mentioned at all in the promotion, it should be used to describe the handle material type, and only if they felt it would help to increase sales. He added a caveat that Pachmayr’s own rubber handled knife designs were poor sellers, and his hope that ISC’s versions would fare better.
Meanwhile, a new problem had become apparent. While the stock fibron impregnated “Winewood” (or Delrin) covers added rigidity to the assembled knife (both longitudinal and flexural) and strengthened the powder metal bolsters, the new co-molded rubber handles did not. A game plan was hatched, and a ribbed flat liner was made to reinforce the handles. For rubber adherence, it was pierced in several places.
By the end of July, 1985, approaching the anticipated fall rollout of the new LB7 Pachmayer, the ISC General Manager sent a letter to Pachmayr thanking them for the received new samples. He indicates the need for an enlarged center hole in the handle to insert a bushing needed to give a solid area to rivet the center pin to in order to keep it from floating. He mentioned that adding the reinforcements along with the needed changes in finishing processes increases the weight as well as cost well beyond original estimates. He then goes on to explain that while they had hoped to be in production before fall rollout, the uncertainty of handle construction and the need to have a high retail price to cover manufacturing costs, the anticipated schedule was not possible. After reviews of the project with both Production and Marketing, they had decided to put the entire project on indefinite hold.
With this industrial version of a “Dear John Letter”, the twenty month long cooperative Schrade LB7 Pachmayr project fizzled and died. The only result of the expenditure of funds and man hours was the few sample knives tossed in a drawer, and sold nineteen years later at the liquidation auction. Those lucky enough to end up with them in their collections might be surprised to learn that each knife represents approximately one to two thousand dollars invested. While it was at one time contemplated to also convert an LB5, all efforts of record were concentrated on the LB7 project.
Codger
Edit for missing decade...time warp typo.
Schrade Pachmayr LB7 Research
In early December of 1983, The Schrade product manager initiated a new cooperative knife venture with Pachmayr Gun Works to produce a rubber handled version of the venerable LB7UH Schrade lockback knife. The effort began with a letter to Mr. Swinden dated December 7th, in which the Schrade Cutlery Product Manager related his speaking to the Pachmayr people at a recent show, and their enthusiastic response to his suggestion of putting their rubber handles on the LB7. It seems they had previously approached Buck Knives, but were unable to conclude a deal. He asked The Schrade Cutlery Ellenville General Manager to forward two sets of samples with production wood covers to Pachmayr for the LB7 and the LB5. He stated that they would make a mold and send them back some rubber covers to experiment with. This letter was copied to Henry B. Baer.
In late December, the ISC General manager sent the samples of covers, bolster scales,, a knife assembled without handles, and a finished knife, requesting a Pachmayr checkered grip similar in shape and thickness to the sample handles. A second embodiment was also mentioned. They wanted to explore the possibility of a wrap around grip similar to their pistol grips.
In early February of 1984, the Pachmayr Director of Sales and Marketing responded in a letter to the IKAC General Sales Manager in the N.Y.C. office with a preliminary price estimate of $1 per knife for two scales. He requested several more samples to prepare prototypes. He also mentioned that their designer was preparing some design alternatives for consideration. These would be the wrap around versions. He also mentioned that the Schrade designer (who turns out to be no less than our F.G., who evidently handled most in-house drafting chores as well as the commercial artwork) is preparing some drawings. The six grip design drawings prepared by Pachmayr were sent to the ISC General manager on February 7th. The Schrade product manager acknowledged receipt of the drawings and promised review on the 14th of February, and confirmed shipping by the ISC General Manager of a sample to check their slab mold.
The ISC General Manager sent Pachmayr two knives assembled to the stage of ready for cover attachment with a brass template in early April, 1984. He gave them some dimensional details and indicated the handles were to have the same basic shape as the imitation stag handles on earlier provided samples.
At the beginning of May, 1984 letter from the Schrade product manager to the ISC General manager, he indicated his enthusiasm for the finger grooved design prototype then produced, and stated “Actually, I am so impressed that’s the version we will buy from Pachmayr..”. He then went on to detail the information he needed to get the project underway, cost per finger grooved handle pair, quantities of 25,000 and 100,000, handle texture molding design, available handle material colors (black, red, brown, green), e.t.a. of a sample set, samples with both brass bolsters and nickle silver bolsters, and sheath requirements. Also, he indicated the desire of Schrade to get an exclusive rights to the rubber handled knives from Pachmayr, suggesting the future addition of other patterns in the line. This was also copied to Schrade Ellenville General Manager and Henry Baer.
A mid-May, 1984 letter from the Vice President of Pachmayr to the ISC General Manager provided Schrade with quotes of prices and conditions. Detailed were given for the prices of the first 100,000 pcs. (50,000 knives), per piece price after the first 100,000, a guarantee of price for the first 200,000 knives or 18 months, available colors (black, brown, brick, forest green, or practically any color they wanted), a first sample delivery date (July 1, 1984), tooling costs, and production delivery timetable ( 60 days after sample approval). Also a firm order quantity, and initial payment amount, agreeing to allow both Schrade and Pachmayr names to appear on the knives, and finally, ownership of the tooling.
The ISC General Manager responded with a letter dated early June, 1984 with a purchase order and an agreement, and in mid-June, Pachmayr responded positively to the agreement, with the caveat that Pachmayr was currently producing hunting and fillet knives under their own brand, and wished to continue in that enterprise, as well as be free to expand their line if they so chose at a later date. They did agree not to manufacture grips for other cutlers. Sample deliver was estimated to be in late July.
At the end of July, 1984, The President of ISC expressed in a letter to the Schrade Cutlery Product Manager his thoughts on requesting that Pachmayr agree to abandon all of their own cutlery ventures upon consummation of a deal with ISC.
The sample knife was sent back to Pachmayr at the end of August, 1984, accompanied by a letter from the ISC General Manager explaining their having dressed the front bevel to 20 degrees to better match the bolster. They requested the proto mold be reshaped to reflect that change, and also to deepen the finger grooves, as well as add a 3/16" strip without checkering, to mold so as to be flush with the bolster.
A “Special Products/New Products Checklist” was issued in early January, 1985 for the Schrade LB7 Pachmayr knife. It specified nickle silver bolsters and molded on black rubber handle by Pachmayr, LB7 blade, black sheath. Undecided were the issues of a blade etch, exact tangstamp, and the assignment of a Schrade item number. It had a notation of “ready to ship August 1st”. An accompanying Schrade “fact sheet”, also dated the same, listed the item as “LB-7 Pachmayr”. This was a cost/profit/unit sales projection analysis. Expected sales projections were stated as “25,000-50,000" units.
At the end of January, 1985, the Imperial Schrade Corporation Product Manager sent a memo to the Vice President of Sales and Marketing at Pachmayr summing up a conversation they had while attending a cutlery show in Atlanta. The following points were made:
1. ISC would be sending revised artwork for the handle incorporating the Schrade logo and symbol, and requesting a handle sample of same for approval, to be followed by production orders from Rob Brown.
2. Requesting a quantity of mark side handle for incorporating into point of sale displays, to give customers the opportunity to feel the surface without having to handle the boxed inventory.
3. Mention of interest expressed by NYPD in the knives, and requesting a sample using the letters “NYPD” on the handle.
4. Suggesting a cooperative ad campaign with costs divided between Schrade and Pachmayr.
In a followup letter to the Pachmayr VP of Sales and Marketing dated early February, 1985, the ISC Product Manager gives an update of issues.
1. New artwork is en route and should arrive by the receipt of the letter.
2. Mentions Pachmayr’s difficulty in supplying the requested quantity of display handle parts, and asks for any scrap or trim to use.
3. Informs that he is working with the ad agency for a fall of 1985 campaign on the knife introduction.
Henry B. Baer sent out a letter to the company management working on the project the next day suggesting that it was important that Schrade’s own handle checkering pattern be used to differentiate their knives from the competitor’s, Buck, Gerber, and Western, all using simple checkering. He also felt that it was important to avoid promoting Pachmayr, as opposed to sharing the credit for the knife with them, suggesting several series names for them to trademark and use instead of the Pachmayr name. He felt that if the Pachmayr name must be mentioned at all in the promotion, it should be used to describe the handle material type, and only if they felt it would help to increase sales. He added a caveat that Pachmayr’s own rubber handled knife designs were poor sellers, and his hope that ISC’s versions would fare better.
Meanwhile, a new problem had become apparent. While the stock fibron impregnated “Winewood” (or Delrin) covers added rigidity to the assembled knife (both longitudinal and flexural) and strengthened the powder metal bolsters, the new co-molded rubber handles did not. A game plan was hatched, and a ribbed flat liner was made to reinforce the handles. For rubber adherence, it was pierced in several places.
By the end of July, 1985, approaching the anticipated fall rollout of the new LB7 Pachmayer, the ISC General Manager sent a letter to Pachmayr thanking them for the received new samples. He indicates the need for an enlarged center hole in the handle to insert a bushing needed to give a solid area to rivet the center pin to in order to keep it from floating. He mentioned that adding the reinforcements along with the needed changes in finishing processes increases the weight as well as cost well beyond original estimates. He then goes on to explain that while they had hoped to be in production before fall rollout, the uncertainty of handle construction and the need to have a high retail price to cover manufacturing costs, the anticipated schedule was not possible. After reviews of the project with both Production and Marketing, they had decided to put the entire project on indefinite hold.
With this industrial version of a “Dear John Letter”, the twenty month long cooperative Schrade LB7 Pachmayr project fizzled and died. The only result of the expenditure of funds and man hours was the few sample knives tossed in a drawer, and sold nineteen years later at the liquidation auction. Those lucky enough to end up with them in their collections might be surprised to learn that each knife represents approximately one to two thousand dollars invested. While it was at one time contemplated to also convert an LB5, all efforts of record were concentrated on the LB7 project.
Codger
Edit for missing decade...time warp typo.
