I'd like some info on the Schrade Old Timer series. Are they made in China like the rest of the Schrade line up? As far as I know, post 2004 the Schrade Old Timer series are comprised of classic patterns manufactured in China. Is that accurate? Also, what blade steel do the stainless and non-stainless versions use? How's the fit and finish on the new ones compared to the old ones?
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Schrade Old Timer
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yablanowitz
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The one example of Chinese made Schrade Old Timer I have is an unidentified stainless steel and the fit and finish are inferior to my USA Schrades.
You now know as much as I do on the subject.
You now know as much as I do on the subject.
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The new ones are made in PRC. The only U.S. made Schrades now are made in Walden, NY. (Not many of those, and NOT made by Schrade; they're made on contract by another mfr.)
True, but one important note: Taylor Brands (the outfit that owns Schrade now) is also having classic patterns made under the Old Timer series, that the U.S. Schrade company did not make, like the Congress pattern; the Congress was never made as an Old Timer pattern, AFAIK.
U.S. Schrade carbon steel knives used very good, well heat-treated 1095. Somewhere here, I read that U.S. Schrade's stainless (SCHRADE +) was a 420-type. The new (Taylor Brands) Old Timers coming out of PRC might be made of one of the 440 series of steels, or a Chinese equivalent if there is one; I keep hearing & reading that it's 440C, but it certainly doesn't hold an edge like any 440C blades I've got. I've never been able to get any seller (SMKW, Taylor Brands, etc.) to actually say that it's 440C.
Sub-par, to put it nicely. They'd make okay users, and I may eventually get one or two, to save wear & tear on my old U.S. Schrades, but they (Taylor Brands) will never have any sentimental value for me.
thx - cpr
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I only have one of the China made Schrades. It's a "Custom Series" muskrat and one blade is clearly marked 440. So, why Taylor LLC, SMKW etc should be reticent about admitting it is beyond me.
For the price it's frankly hard to criticise a knife that fits my personal, light use EDC needs, but as has been mentioned, it has none of the traditional provenance we like so much. I EDC'd it for a month then moved on.
If you take a look here you can clearly see the marking, but please excuse the horrid scales.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/dkonopinski/The%20Collection/DSC00126.jpg
David
For the price it's frankly hard to criticise a knife that fits my personal, light use EDC needs, but as has been mentioned, it has none of the traditional provenance we like so much. I EDC'd it for a month then moved on.
If you take a look here you can clearly see the marking, but please excuse the horrid scales.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/dkonopinski/The%20Collection/DSC00126.jpg
David
yablanowitz
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There are a number of 440 steels, and they are not created equal. On a side note, when Sal Glesser was starting up the Byrd line of knives to be made in China, the contract called for 440C as it was the best steel available there at the time. When he got the first batch of knives, which were marked 440C, he analyzed the steel and found the chemistry was wrong. It turned out that 8Cr13MoV was what the Chinese considered the equivalent of 440C, so that is what they used. Frankly, they don't care what markings they put on.
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So, there may be some question as to the nature of a given steel on some of these imports. Duly noted for the purposes of this thread and to curtail any off-topic meandering into the realm of "China bashing". Suffice it to say...Caveat Emptor
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That's what I'd do. But I'm sentimental, too.
The point I made earlier is that neither SMKW nor Taylor Brands would confirm the series of 440; whether -A, -B, or -C. Everyone keeps saying that it's 440, but I think a lot of their CS folks probably don't know that there's at least three common types of it, with C being the best, as far as alloy is concerned.
A while back, Bernard Levine stated that he has kitchen knives made of 440A, from the early 1970's IIRC. They were good knives and the steel worked well for that purpose.
thx - cpr
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I had, operative word, a new-production "Schrade" 125OT. Easily one of the sloppiest knives I've ever seen. Poor grinds, sharp corners everywhere on the scales, minimal snap. Overall, not worth the $10 I paid for it on a whim.
yablanowitz
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That was exactly my point. Even though it says "440" on the blade, odds are good that it really isn't. It may be something very good (I've been quite pleased with the performance of the 8Cr13MoV) or it may not. Real 440C doesn't seem to even be available in mainland China.
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That was totally understood. My reply was in no way intended to imply that you would stoop to any such "bashing". It was just an attempt to head 'em off at the pass.
yablanowitz
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I don't want to drift off into "China bashing" either. The fact is, they can make very good knives if that is what the contracting company wants.
ea42
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There haven't been any knives from any company made in Walden in years. They (Taylor) did have knives tang stamped "Schrade-Walden", but that was only because they own the rights to that name. I believe those knives were made by Camillus when they were still in business.
Eric
It would actually be worthwhile to track down some nice old Schrade Old Timers on the Ebay listings. In thier day, they made some of the nicest carbon steel working knives there was to be had. The blades were ground in a nice thin flat grind down to the edge, great 1095 tempered just right. Even though you may end up paying a bit more on the 'bay, if you want a great cutting pocket knife, the real Old Timers have few equals.
They didn't have a cult following in thier day among working men for no reason.
They didn't have a cult following in thier day among working men for no reason.
Will Power
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Older Schrades are certainly fetching a high, I might say inflated price recently.
I bought a small 3OT lockback that was a new Chinese knife and it was pretty dismal, blade wobble poor finish,scales poorly done. Its US made equivalent seems to command about 60-75 dollars which I think is too much for a simple basic work-knife. Nor do I intend to decry Chinese knives, the Paul Chen Hanwei folder I have is of superb quality and I admire the Rough Rider Old Yellow series,very fine knives at low cost.It just seems that these current Schrades aren't in the same league, could be my bad luck though.
I bought a small 3OT lockback that was a new Chinese knife and it was pretty dismal, blade wobble poor finish,scales poorly done. Its US made equivalent seems to command about 60-75 dollars which I think is too much for a simple basic work-knife. Nor do I intend to decry Chinese knives, the Paul Chen Hanwei folder I have is of superb quality and I admire the Rough Rider Old Yellow series,very fine knives at low cost.It just seems that these current Schrades aren't in the same league, could be my bad luck though.
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AMEN. There are a ton of them still floating around and if you get a good one, it's a gem of a working knife that you'll be able to hand down to your grandkids.
Patience, my friend. I recently scored a U.S.-made 34OT stockman that was stained up a bit and had the tiniest bend in the tip of the sheepsfoot blade. It was as if the original owner had opened the knife, bent the sheepsfoot tip a wee bit trying to cut something, then put the knife on a shelf in his garage and left it there for years. I rubbed down the blades with my Miracle Cloth to knock off some of the light surface rust, filed out the bend with the diamond file on my Leatherman Wave, and - for a grand total of about $5 total - I have my first Old Timer stockman. The rehab job took me about 20 minutes.
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I think you're right - I remember seeing a Schrade-Walden (Trapper?) on SMKW's website, for about 3x the cost of the imported Schrades. I don't see it there now.
I buy these occasionally - the old, beat up knives - and with a few minutes of "rehab", as you say, they're as good as new. With good carbon blades like U. S. Schrade's, after a couple of uses you usually can't even tell work was done. I've acquired some incredible working knives that way.
thx - cpr
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If you are lucky, you can still run into some old stock- USA-Schrade Old Timers. A few months ago I was in ACE hardware in Huntington Bch, Ca during the Derelict Donuts weekly carshow (Every Saturday morning) and saw 3 Old Timer 2 blade juniors in blister packs for $7 dollars each. I bought all 3, still have 2 in the blister packs, rotated the 3rd into my daily carry squad. These are carbon 1095 knives-excellent steel.
Best-Mike
Best-Mike