Schrade or Camillus?

[waynorth]

This was in another forum. Wonder if it's Schrade or Camillus? Anyone??

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408668

 

[Codger_64]

If I am reading the Sears number correctly, this is a Schrade 855RB from the "Razor Blade Stainless" series. While I have a lot of respect for Mr. Levine, I believe in this case he is wrong. Additionally, as has been shown time and again here in this forum, it is incorrect to issue the blanket statement "Schrade "Old Timer" brand are carbon steel" Likewise we would be in error to say that all "Uncle Henry" brand are stainless, either 440A or 440C. As well, flatly stating that Camillus was the prime contractor is not correct. Mr. Dave Swinden Sr. worked for many years with Frank Kiethcart, Sears cutlery buyer (as did Tom Williams of Camillus).


Top Left: file photo of Sears #9553
Top Right: file photo of SW 855RB
Bottom Left: Knife in question
Bottom right: Catalog listing for 855RB circa 1970.

Codger

Edited to add: I'll not post this in Mr. Levine's forum, as it would be in poor taste and etiquette to do so.

 

[waynorth]

Oops, I referred that thread to here. I hope no-one's offended.
Thanks Codger, for taking the time to dig up all this info. It does point strongly to Schrade. I wish I could hold all those knives and look at them physically. The nuances then come out!!

 

[Codger_64]

I don't think it will be a problem. As with any relationship, business or personal, there are nuances and etiquettes involved. This Schrade collector's forum exists at the grace of the owners, and is unique in that we do not have a manufacturer sponsor, or even a moderator. The big pirate (HPIC) simply trusts us to police ourselves. And so far it has worked quite well.

Mr. Levine's forum is in a way an extension of his business as an author, authenticator, professional legal witness, and appraiser of knives. What he posts there is his property ( his "stock in trade"), and he rightly resents anyone diverting or detracting from his audience, or confusing his following with conflicting information. Wanna see fireworks and get banned? Use unauthorized quotes from there in an eBay listing!

As I said, I have the utmost respect for BRL, as does most of the knife community. He is a wellspring of knowledge and, like our own LT, shares quite a bit of it without charge. And I heartily recommend his book Levine's Guide 4th edition. It is a valuable resource for Schrade collectors. The fifth and sixth were done without his input, so those are not held in very high regard.

Codger

 

[waynorth]

BRL is always willing to add to his knowledge base. In his Whut Izzit column in Knife World he invites people to add information if possible. I wouldn't know half what I know without BRL.
And now I've found the Schraders!!
Life is good!

 

[Dog of War]

Thanks for bringing this over to this forum, waynorth, this is very helpful. I never consider help in getting info I'm after to be in poor taste.

Codger - the main clip blade is marked 9553, so I think we've got it nailed down. Thanks!

Now maybe this isn't proper etiquette, but does anyone know if Schrade made similar knives with these elegant blade patterns in carbon steel, and where I might find a really nice one (or more) for sale?

 

[orvet]

Now maybe this isn't proper etiquette, but does anyone know if Schrade made similar knives with these elegant blade patterns in carbon steel, and where I might find a really nice one (or more) for sale?

According to the info I have a 834 in the Open Stock series would have the same blade pattern, but would be a 3-5/16" as opposed to 3-1/4" for the 855RB. But they should have the clip, spey & pen blades. I have a 834Y, but it has clip, spey and sheepfoot blade. That just goes to show you that you never know with Schrade.

You can find them on ebay, according to my records I paid $8.75 + shipping for an old, well used 834Y.

Dale

 

[knifeaholic]

I agree with Codger, that is clearly Schrade or Ulster tooling, the tooling goes back to the classic Ulster marked Old Timer (58OT?). That particular tooling is interesting....it was used extensively for the less expensive Imperial Jackmaster knives, also a lot of Ulsters. The only Schrade that I have ever seen that uses that particular tooling was the razor blade stainless model.

Actually I believe that Schrade made a lot more of the Craftsman slipjoints over the years. I have several nice old 50's era peachseed bone patterns with the Schrade Walden tang stamping and CRAFSTMAN blade etch. Even into the 70's, most were made by Schrade (like the OLD CRAFTY series). I think that Camillus took over in the early to mid 80's.

Is it possible that some of the knives that look like Schrades could have been made by Camillus using Schrade tooling?

 

[knifeaholic]

Thanks for bringing this over to this forum, waynorth, this is very helpful. I never consider help in getting info I'm after to be in poor taste.

Codger - the main clip blade is marked 9553, so I think we've got it nailed down. Thanks!

Now maybe this isn't proper etiquette, but does anyone know if Schrade made similar knives with these elegant blade patterns in carbon steel, and where I might find a really nice one (or more) for sale?

The only one that I know of in carbon steel would be the 58OT, made with the ULSTER tang stamp. These date to the 1960's, but are fairly common.

For a new knife, you could look at Moore Maker - they offer a similar small stockman made by Camillus in either smooth yellow delrin or buffalo horn handles, 1095 carbon steel.

 

[glennbad]

After reading this thread, I though I would post a few pics.

This first one is the first pocketknife I ever really remember carrying as a kid. I was around 10, I'm sure I had others before that. I believe I traded for it. I think I remember doing something stupid with it, and broke the clip blade.

Here is another example, a 9552 pattern. You can't see the etch, which says "Super razor blade stainless". Interesting...

Here is a 2 blade 9541 pattern. Obviously, schrade made...

And this last one is a weird egg, obviously a reject. Do you think Schrade made this one?

Glenn

 

[Dog of War]

Thanks, guys. Have to admit I can see how Schrade history and collecting has got to be pretty fascinating.

The different 834's I'm finding on eBay and elsewhere have clip, sheepsfoot and spey blades, with some significant variation in the actual blade patterns, some of the clips not Turkish. Not only do I like the Turkish clip, but the spine of the spey on the 9553/855 seems to make the blade handier for the kind of cutting I do, and IMO gives an interesting look. The 855 is the only model I've found so far with the spey like my Craftsman, but seems these may have only been in stainless.

Knifeaholic, about Moore Maker ..... I thought they contracted with Case? If Camillus, that'd be a real plus IMO.


PS ... just had an odd thought: is there such a thing as a sheeplesfoot blade?

 

[Bartleby]

Funny, I always think of "sheeplesfoot" when I use the little sheepsfoot blade on the Case medium stockman (6344). It's much shorter than what I think of as the perfect (Schrade 897) medium stockman sheepsfoot. I use the little Case a lot in sheeple heavy enviornments. This thread reminded me that my late father-in-law carried a Camillus marked stockman for years that was the spittin image of the Schrade 897. Always wondered about that one. It would be interesting to check out the clones and near clones of the 897. Codger, I remember you posting something on a Colonial stockman that was very similar a while back.

 

[orvet]

Glen,
Your pic of your broken pocket knife from your childhood brought back bitter sweet memories. My dad got a new pocket knife for himself and said he thought it was time for me to have one, so he gave me his old knife. I was about 6 years old. As I recall it had a clip & a pen blade, I don't remember the brand. I did the same thing, pried with the pen blade and broke the tip off. That is the last knife I think I ever broke. I learned my lesson well. I don't know what ever happened to that little knife.

Dale

 

[knifeaholic]

Dog Of War;

Moore Maker contracts with Queen and with Camillus but not with Case. Camillus makes the smooth yellow delrin and buffalo horn models. Queen makes the more expensive jigged bone, smooth bone, and stag models. All both Queen and Camillus are 1095 with a very few exceptions.

 

[El Lobo]

Dog of War,

I'm sure knifeaholic will check back in...but untill then, the Moore's currently contract with Queen for the stag and bone scaled knives, and with Camillus for the horn and Delrin scaled knives.

Once again guys, thanks for sharing the pictures. I sure missed out on the Schrade made stuff when growing up.

Bill

EDITED: And, I'm obviously slowing down a bunch as well... Sigh.

 

[Codger_64]

Here is a cell pearl sheeple friendly knife, an early Imperial. These are also called gumball knives, though Imperial called them midgets".


In 1959, they improved them and had several lines like the Topsey and the Shorty.


Codger

 

[glennbad]

Nice contribution, Codg...

On an unrelated note, it looks like you will have a long life and meet a mysterious stranger. Oh yeah, you neeed a manicure too.

Glenn

 

[waynorth]

I thought you never wanted to be fingerprinted!?! They're gonna get ya now!

 

[rev_jch]

Another thing to take into consideration is both camillus, schrade and others (western, case, etc.), did jobbing for each other over the years!