Schrade Vic sak comparison

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Mar 12, 2006
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I wrote a little bit a week or so ago talking about the German made Imperial schrade Sak style stainless knife. I recently recieved 2 that I bought off of ebay The CN61 Mercury and the CN81 orion. One for $15.00 and one for $10.00. I usually carry a victorinox super tinker knife so im pretty much comparing it to that. Which let me first say it is very hard to beat a victorinox as far as quality of a knife and price. So price wise the schrade when you can find them which isint too hard is a bit cheaper. Blade snap seems to be pretty good and fit and finish are nice as well. tooth pick and tweezers are nice and tight in the knife. The awl on the back of the schrade is very dull -vs- victorinox being very sharp. Factory edge on the schrade blade is ok sharp but a very small edge, somewhat similar to the vic. Im gonna try over the next week or so to carry the 2 and give some more honest opnions and comparisons. Anybody else ever carry one? Just curious to see what you guys thought. Dont want anyone to think im badmouthing the vic's cause I carry one and love it, just doing a side by side to see where schrade stood with these knives- Joel
 
Joel,
Love to hear you opinion on the knives.
There are so many types of the CN's and Vics you could do a book.
I'll be watching
Larry
 
I'll start with the side by side comparison... anyone know which one is the schrade, without pulling out yours . I'll say this so far they are identical with a few minor differences and I mean minor, length being one and tweezers being two so far.
sakcomparison002.jpg
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Ok well the bigger of the 2 knives is the German schrade. The tweezers and toothpick on the left also belong to the schrade. The longer I compare and use these two they are identical other than size, snap on both is great, the build is nearly identical and one seems to be as durable as the next.
sakcomparison005.jpg
sakcomparison003.jpg
 
Good review and comparison so far. I have several of these U.S./German Schrades but no Victorinox/Wengers to compare them to.

I'd be interested in seeing how the Camillus Poland Sportsman knives compare to these two. Albert Baer arranged for Camillus to import them from Gerlach Gdynia Poland. This was some time in the 1970's. Tom Williams was in Camillus' sales department at the time and I don't think he was very impressed with the quality.

The Century knives I have don't seem to be hair popping sharp right out of the package. Not a huge put-off for me, as I can sharpen them. How does the master blade sharpness of the two compare?

Michael
 
The blade grind is a little bigger on the Vic, meaning a little larger edge. So yes I would say the same as you, I wasnt super impressed with the edge on the main blade of the schrade but that can be fixed like you said. And the same goes for the smaller blade as well not as good of a grind/sharpening as the vic. I'll see what I can come up with for the camillus.
 
As a dedicated SAK user (both Vic and Wenger) as well as a budding Schradeaholic wannabe, I look forward to your further review as well as finding a Century or two of my own. I don't Ebay so the search will probably be a slow one but that makes the discovery all the sweeter. Thanks again.
 
Well its been a few days of carrying the schrade sak. And I must say I love my vic which I carry everyday along with some others, but other than the lack of a great blade edge the knife so far seems very equal to my vic. It opens nicely and snaps shut hard. None of the blades or tools are hard to get out and it so far functions quite good. This isint to say Im gonna give up my vic cause I havent beat the knife very hard yet but It opened up about 15 beer bottles on newyears eve and has some whittlin time in and even used the tweezers a couple of times and cut a piece of small rope and so far so good. Up till now the only plus or minus is the better edge on the vic which Im gonna do a little sharpening on the schrade to see how it sharpens and holds up.- Joel
 
Just thought Id throw this in, its a neat variation of the CN11, and I never saw it marketed this way, its avilable on ebay and I believe its from 1993 anyway first Ive ever seen this way but I really havent been looking till now.- Joel
germanschradeCN11.jpg
 
Hello everyone- sorry ive been coming and going, Im in the process of moving again and have had to borrow my brothers computer every few days thats why my review has been so strung out. First let me say this I have decided this from a completely neutral point of view, the century german schrade -vs- the vic sak, they in my honest so far opnion are the same knife. I can say if there was no tang stamp and no shield I dont believe I would be able to tell you the difference between the two knives. This is a good thing cause till now I would not have regarded the schrade sak as even comparable to the vic sak. Now Im not telling everyone to run out and get a century, and Im not saying Im goning to go sell all of my vic sak's but I am saying if your looking for a good sak style of knife the schrade century might not be a bad choice.
Now for codger's question- the camillus version of the sak- the Gerlach Poland knife. I just picked one up and havent had much chance to review it yet except at a first glance. first thought would be right up there with codgers comments. Blades are hard to open up and its like its all one spring for all the blades. If you try to open one blade on one side, the blades on the other side are pushed way out. One good thing is they did some neat stuff like incorperating a file on the back side of the phillips screwdriver which is basically square, but a pretty neat idea. there is some other things also which I will show pics and a better review later. But I do possibly see why at a first glance camillus chose to do away with it.
my main question would be this why if owned by schrade did for example the imperials, the century saks, the frontiers, etc. and camillus the gerlach, make no reference to the main mother company on the knife itself at all? I mean If I had a knife I was proud of I would want my name on it, so how does that work? Anyway sorry to bore everyone so much with my review but there is more to come.-= Joel s
 
Glad you're checking in and still playing with these knives. That is really the only way to get to know their quirks, and makes for a much better review, I believe. Here is some info I had squirreled away on the Polish knives Camillus tried.
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Camillus Syracuse Knife CO. Poland

Yet another series of Camillus knives recently came to my attention, and interest peaked while discussing them with Mr. Tom Williams, Camillus Historian.

During the 1970's Albert Baer arranged for Camillus to purchase a large quantity of Swiss Army type knives that were made in Poland. There were two types: multi blade knives with either red plastic or engine turned stainless steel handles. They were stamped either "SYRACUSE" or "GERLACH".

John Goins notes these tang stamps in his last book, Goins’ Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings 1998, though there are no illustrations or patterns mentioned.
"Syracuse Knife Co.- c. 1975-1976. A trademark used by Camillus. 'Product of Poland ' is stamped on the small blade." Yet he doesn’t list the maker, Gerlach SA of Poland.

Gerlach SA is Poland's leading silverware manufacturer, producing cutlery, kitchen knives, butchers knives, hunting knives and pocket knives. Gerlach's history dates back to 1824, when Samuel Gerlach established a small factory to produce cutting tools in Warsaw's Podwale area. The company began growing steadily, and 50 years later it opened a new plant in Wola district, in which it produced blades for such then-leading world companies as Fraget, Hanneberg and Norblin. In 1897, Samuel Gerlach's heirs, the Kobylańnski family, moved the plant to Drzewicz, in the Mazovia region, where they are still located today.

The greatest changes at Gerlach took place after World War II. Like most private companies, the factory was nationalized. It was not until the 1960s that the factory was thoroughly modernized; several additional facilities were also built at the time. During this period the company reported record employment: Nearly 4,500 people produced household cutlery, scissors, pocket knives, razor blades and beauty-care instruments. Currently, Gerlach estimates that it has a 75-percent share of the Polish household-cutlery market, a 70-percent share in gardening tools and a 90-percent share in scissors.

It was still a state owned industry when Albert Baer suggested that Camillus import a quantity of their “Swiss Army” type knives and test market them. Camillus did under both the Syracuse and Gerlach marks. But sales were lackluster, quality was not the greatest, and the enterprise was shortlived.

Ten basic patterns of knives were offered under the Syracuse tang with the red plastic handles with silver Polish eagle and stainless blades. Special display cases were made to promote them. The one I found is a #357 seven blade knife.

The pen blade stamp is actually 357 / Product / of Poland
Now, I cannot say that this knife is a prime example of the genre, but the construction is poorly thought out and poorly executed.

With only the phillips screwdriver and awl blades on the bottom of the knife, the five remaining blades are accessed from the top. Progression of nail nicks is almost completely from the front. In order to open the master spear blade, the last, or most rearward blade in the group, one must first open the bottle opener/flat screwdriver blade and the scissor blade to access the master blade nick. Likewise, in order a open the small pen blade, next to last in the group, the master blade must be opened since the pen blade nick faces it. Spring hardness is strange. The spring for the can opener and bottle opener blades is either broken, or completely ineffective since the blades flop open and closed. The spring for the Phillips is a nail breaker. Stout. The spring for the punch is like those of the openers, and may well be shared. The scissor spring functions properly as do the master and pen blade springs. The lanyard ring is what one would expect from a crackerjack box, round coiled spring wire about 1/4" in diameter. The covers seem to be well finished with the NS pins flush and the eagle well fitted. It may have been actually molded into the cover rather than inserted given the intricate detail involved.

One must also remember that the knives were produced by a state run company in a soviet communist dominated country in the mid 1970's. All in all, it is an interesting example of a marketing attempt. And the quality of this one may not be representative of the type given it’s age of thirty years or more. And it is yet another tang stamp to be sought for the “complete” Camillus collection.
 
The camillus sak, although not too impressive agreeing with everything mentioned above and more, including the awl being nothing more than a rather lame triangle piece of metal amongst other things. But considering the time frame it was made Im still a little confused... what would start to finish production time line have been for the gerlach knives? and is the 1975-1976 only the syracuse knife co. production line for that tang stamp? Either way if the gerlach was pre 1980, 1970,1960, it is somewhat impressive in its own way because I would say the knife was somewhat advanced for the time frame but if it was 1980 or later it is somewhat lame but still interesting. and like codger said very important for a complete collection. The sheath that the knife came in is probablly the neatest part of all but lacking a belt loop to hold it. I will hopefully be uploading pics by tomorrow or sat and comparing that and I also have some more good comparisons on the century to fill you guys in on too.=- Joel s
 
1975-76 was the time in which Camillus imported them. At the end, they were bundled off in lots to SMKW with a box of free waiter's knives tossed in to sweeten the deal with each order. It is my understanding that knives of both markings were imported at the same time. Whether some patterns were marked one way and other patterns the other, or each pattern was mixed I couldn't say.

Gerlach is still very much in business.
http://www.polandbymail.com/get_item_ger308c_red-hunting-gerlach-2-bladed-knife.htm

As far as the quality of design and execution, you have to remember that these were produced in a state owned factory in a communist country long before glasnost and perestroika. If for no other reason than that, they represent a unique page in Camillus, Baer and therefore Schrade history. They harken back to earlier knives produced for Kastor's Camillus in Nixdorf, Bohemia (aka Austria pre WWI which was Czechslovakia post WWI). You do have an example from Imperial Mexico, right? :)
 
I've been doing a tad of research on the maker of the Century skeletons. Yes, Adler Messer GmbH of Leegebruch, Germany delivered the knives to Imperial Schrade as finished skeletons lacking only covers, final finish and packaging. I found no hint of involvement by Victorinox or Wenger. Imperial International was not really involved. But what I did find was amazing. I followed trails across European and American history back to the 1700's. Where it all led was... for lack of a better word, ironic. Let me know if you want a long history lesson some time!

Michael
 
If you want to write it up I'll be glad to put it in the web page and post a link.
 
Michael Please bring it on I would love to hear it, when you get time of corse. By the way im working on a mexico imperial as we speak. And by the way there is some very interesting and neat knives on the link you posted above. there is a swiss army style of fish knife that looks really cool. And codger like you said you look at a knife and find that its far more interesting knowing the history or past of it!!! Imagining it being built in a communist place controled by the state makes me appreciate it a bit more had I not known.- Joel
 
With such a convoluted story it is hard to know just where to begin. I am still gathering details to flesh it out, and I don't speak any of the European languages. Geographic names changed quite often over the years there as did political systems and boundarys. And a lot of it does not make sense without sprinkling in the domestic import situation here as time progressed. For that at least the New York Times archives provides some tantilizing clues, stuff you never read about in the history books.
 
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