Scrapper 6 or MPK A2 ??? Help me to choose please !

S

sharp-k

Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
185
Hi there,

I'm looking for a good utility/fighter knife, both are very similar and both have good reputation, could you help me to choose only one ?


Thanks in advance.
 
MPK IMHO has best ergonomics among this kind of knives (and I have some collection). The handle is perfect - it is not simple as it looks, it has very thoughtful 3D design (you may notice it on my pictures) and feel secure and comfortable! Blade shape is also Perfect. I have MPK-S10 (5" blade) and very impressed on how it feel in the hand. Also it has TiAlN coating which is much better then usual polimer coating - not too many knives like this has it (I know ZT100 has DLC coating - other knife with good coating). Other thing to consider - this model is in use for many many years and initially designed together with Seals.

So I would recomment MPK-S over, actually any other knives in this class.

Mission-MPK10A2-09.jpg


Mission-MPK10A2-11.jpg


Mission-MPK10A2-13.jpg


Mission-MPK10A2-15.jpg


5 3/4" X 1 1/2" X 15/64" - 11.77 oz

Sheath:

Mission-MPK10A2-00.jpg


Only cons I have - factory sharpness was not as good as I like.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Since you mention fighter, I would have to agree about the Mission knife. Great knives.

The Scrapper 6 knife is more of a camping knife.
 
Yes, I am thinking about 7". Again on my opinion this is best design I know and 7" will be more useful for chopping - camp kind of work, however even 5" is pretty good.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Yes, the 5" A2 steel has also maybe the same balance than the 7"titanium blade ...
If you see now, most of the modern fighting knives are available in twoo sizes 5" and 7". I think it depends on what you really need to do with your knife. I think I'm going to purchase a 5" and will see if I'm satisfied with it other than that I will go with the 7".
At the begining I was looking for a Busse they are great but they are expensive, after that I discover the Swap Rat and the Scrap Yard knives but they seems to be more tools than fighting knives, I'm not going to try to cut a brick with my knife, I prefer a not-so-strong razor sharp blade, I think it's more efficient for fighting.
Is your mission MPK (A2 steel) really sharp ???
 
sharp-k said:
Yes, the 5" A2 steel has also maybe the same balance than the 7"titanium blade ...
If you see now, most of the modern fighting knives are available in twoo sizes 5" and 7". I think it depends on what you really need to do with your knife. I think I'm going to purchase a 5" and will see if I'm satisfied with it other than that I will go with the 7".
At the begining I was looking for a Busse they are great but they are expensive, after that I discover the Swap Rat and the Scrap Yard knives but they seems to be more tools than fighting knives, I'm not going to try to cut a brick with my knife, I prefer a not-so-strong razor sharp blade, I think it's more efficient for fighting.
Is your mission MPK (A2 steel) really sharp ???
Click to expand...

I will not argue steel, magical HT etc. SR and Busse I have has very good steel and HT. But they all far behind handle erginimic of MPK, far, far behind! No one even close to MPK in terms of how it feel in your palm - secure comfortable. SR and Busse focused on steel and they doing it very well and have a lot of happy customers, but handles are not as good as MPK has. I think that this is as important or even more important for practical knife then edge retention etc.

It does not mean that Misson has any problem with steel, not at all and I make mine exteremly sharp myself. I would say that Misson pay attention more evenly to steel and to ergonomic.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I have one and echo the comments on the handle. Very secure and a good design.

Small issue: the blade spine has not been relieved at all. It is so square (sharp) that it cuts/chews up wood batons like crazy.

Bigger issue: Corrosion resistance is among the worst I have seen on any knife. I took one (MPK-S, A2 steel, 7" blade) diving and it rusted immediately. Deep pits in the steel and the blade was orange with rust after only 2 hours in the saltwater and maybe a few hours in my dive equipment bucket waiting to be cleaned. The finish on the blade seems to some kind of rust accelerator! My other knives (some with no coating/finish) fared much better (O1 and A2 steels).

Upside: If you don't dive the knife and keep it dry you have good value for money in a general use knife. I have seen these on retail for $120 (I paid $150 when I got mine).


Mark
 
They temper it high to draw the hardness, this could explain the lower corrosion resistance. I don't recall it being anything like that on the ones I used though.

-Cliff
 
Mark Schmitt said:
I have one and echo the comments on the handle. Very secure and a good design.

Small issue: the blade spine has not been relieved at all. It is so square (sharp) that it cuts/chews up wood batons like crazy.

Bigger issue: Corrosion resistance is among the worst I have seen on any knife. I took one (MPK-S, A2 steel, 7" blade) diving and it rusted immediately. Deep pits in the steel and the blade was orange with rust after only 2 hours in the saltwater and maybe a few hours in my dive equipment bucket waiting to be cleaned. The finish on the blade seems to some kind of rust accelerator! My other knives (some with no coating/finish) fared much better (O1 and A2 steels).

Upside: If you don't dive the knife and keep it dry you have good value for money in a general use knife. I have seen these on retail for $120 (I paid $150 when I got mine).


Mark
Click to expand...

A2 is carbon steel and of course it rust immediately same as KaBar and same as S7 on Scrapper. Two hours in Saltwater! This is not the way you treat Carbon Steel knife! I do not belive that any carbon steel will stand it better (O1 or A2 or S7). Until you use some oil or something like it. However Mission state that TiAlN is their way to prevent corrosion, which is I may say correct only for regular use - not with exposure to saltwater of course, not even wit exposure to freshwater. But even all stainless, except H1, can not stand Saltwater! So I doubt that it is something wrong here, unless you expect similar to Titanium corrosion resistance.

About this remark "They temper it high to draw the hardness" - this is absolutely baseless statement.

57-58HRC for A2 is pretty reasonable hardness for A2, I have A2 59-60HRC heat treated this way for me by P.Bos, by his recommendation (and I think he is right). So this scientific fact not likely applicable in this situation.

Thanks, Vassili.

One more plus - it exists from 1992 - 15 years! So you may say it is kind of prooven design.
 
I have owned both knives. They are quite different in many ways. The MPK is longer but it is fast in the hand as it is thinner. I like the MPK in A2 it is what the MAd Dog ATAK should have been and it has better steel at half the price of the ATAK.

The Scrapper 6 is basically an abrahms tank. It is solid and super strong for it's size. It is very sharp and has a nice point. S7 is a shock steel, so it sould be a lot tougher than A2. The resiprene handle wins the confort contest hands down, it absorbs shock better than the MPK handle, this part is a matter of preference.

Both are great little knives and you won't go wrong with either.
 
nozh2002 said:
I think you may ask this kind of questions in this forums - probably you will have more detailed responces:

Practical Tactical - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=680

Filipino Combat Arts Forum - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=708

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

I'm not certain I grasp your meaning. The question was directed specifically at the original poster, since it appears he has a clear mental concept of what he intends to use this knife for, but has not described that usage other than stating that he wants a "fighting knife".
 
nozh2002 said:
I will not argue steel, magical HT etc. SR and Busse I have has very good steel and HT. But they all far behind handle erginimic of MPK, far, far behind! No one even close to MPK in terms of how it feel in your palm - secure comfortable. SR and Busse focused on steel and they doing it very well and have a lot of happy customers, but handles are not as good as MPK has. I think that this is as important or even more important for practical knife then edge retention etc.

It does not mean that Misson has any problem with steel, not at all and I make mine exteremly sharp myself. I would say that Misson pay attention more evenly to steel and to ergonomic.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...
Vassili,
I don't have a Mission knife, but I have a few Busse's, and you may be right with regards to how the Mission knife may feel in your hand, but my Busse's slabs are pretty near indestructable. I know the original poster is concerned with a fighting knife, but still. The Busse handles are stronger. The Mission's
handles are not made out of Micarta, they look from the pictures to be made out of some type of softer material. Maybe more comfortable, yes, but in no way tougher than a Busse.
 
Troop said:
Vassili,
I don't have a Mission knife, but I have a few Busse's, and you may be right with regards to how the Mission knife may feel in your hand, but my Busse's slabs are pretty near indestructable. I know the original poster is concerned with a fighting knife, but still. The Busse handles are stronger. The Mission's
handles are not made out of Micarta, they look from the pictures to be made out of some type of softer material. Maybe more comfortable, yes, but in no way tougher than a Busse.
Click to expand...

Troop I have both Mission and Busse (and Swamp Rat also). This "some type of softer material" called Kevlar/Hytrel and it is not soft. It is stronger then Micarta IMHO I think it is easier to crack Micarta especially fancy paper-based one. Also Busse and Swamp Rat Micarta has very bad feature - it turns very slippery when wet.

I highly regard Busse for their steel and heat treatment - please do not start religiouse war here, but IMHO handle is not as ideal as MPK has. It is not only stronger material but also shape of the handle very thoughtful very detailed to make it absolutely secure and comfortable.

Resoprene - I read on SR forum something about that it is same material car tiers made from. I guess it may absorbs shock, but if it is as soft as Kraton, then it is too soft. Any way softness of the knife handle is not what make it comfortable but most is shape and from what I see on the pictures MPK way ahead of any SR on this and for Micarta models (which I have) it is for sure.

Even with tendancy to position their knives as chopping knives handle they have does not ideal for this kind of activity - for chopping you need solid hook at the end, it may be hook, it may be pommel, or just widening as on Russian knives - something palm can relay on during chopping. Micarta handles of SR as well as Busse totally miss this. Resoprene handle have some hint of it but not really what I like to see.

SwampRat-BogDog-03.jpg


Same with guard. MPK here is way way ahead.

In this terms (not in softness of handle) I think MPK is unbeatable, by anybody for now. ...But I like to have one made from SRS15, not A2...

And again for 15 years in use by Seals they can evolve handle to perfection, as I understand steel quality does not matter to much for them, but ergo is what really important.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Get yourself a Scrapper 6. More useful, cheaper, more comfort (IMO), and they have an amazing warranty and forum environment to answer any possible concerns.
 
Padawan said:
I'm not certain I grasp your meaning. The question was directed specifically at the original poster, since it appears he has a clear mental concept of what he intends to use this knife for, but has not described that usage other than stating that he wants a "fighting knife".
Click to expand...

I just think you may find there much more people whom you may found having this "mental concept" - all what they talk about tactical, fighting, CQB knives etc. IMHO you clearly exposing some mental perсeption here and willing to take action about this - so that will be right place for you to start all this, at least you may find more interested audience.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Noz, why do you spew disinforation?

nozh2002 said:
Troop I have both Mission and Busse (and Swamp Rat also). This "some type of softer material" called Kevlar/Hytrel and it is not soft. It is stronger then Micarta IMHO I think it is easier to crack Micarta especially fancy paper-based one. Also Busse and Swamp Rat Micarta has very bad feature - it turns very slippery when wet.
Click to expand...

First of all, Canvas and Linen Micarta are aboutas tough s hanle materials get, tougher than almos anything else. Missions handle is similar to G10 which is also a very goo matrial but definitely not better than micarta. Slippery when wet? No different than Misions handle.


nozh2002 said:
I highly regard Busse for their steel and heat treatment - please do not start religiouse war here, but IMHO handle is not as ideal as MPK has. It is not only stronger material but also shape of the handle very thoughtful very detailed to make it absolutely secure and comfortable.
Click to expand...

Again, missions handle is not stronger and the ful tang Busse is ctully more likely to survive damage as even if you loose the handle you can still wrp the tang. Th Mission hndle is more ergonomic than the Micarta from Busse, but not s ergonomic as the resiprne.

nozh2002 said:
Resoprene - I read on SR forum something about that it is same material car tiers made from. I guess it may absorbs shock, but if it is as soft as Kraton, then it is too soft. Any way softness of the knife handle is not what make it comfortable but most is shape and from what I see on the pictures MPK way ahead of any SR on this and for Micarta models (which I have) it is for sure.
Click to expand...

Resiprene is not car tire material. It is tougher and better than kraton. It also has a lifetime warranty

nozh2002 said:
Even with tendancy to position their knives as chopping knives handle they have does not ideal for this kind of activity - for chopping you need solid hook at the end, it may be hook, it may be pommel, or just widening as on Russian knives - something palm can relay on during chopping. Micarta handles of SR as well as Busse totally miss this. Resoprene handle have some hint of it but not really what I like to see.
Click to expand...

Nothing chops better than busse, rat, scrapyard and Mission definitely does not.



nozh2002 said:
Same with guard. MPK here is way way ahead.

In this terms (not in softness of handle) I think MPK is unbeatable, by anybody for now. ...But I like to have one made from SRS15, not A2...

And again for 15 years in use by Seals they can evolve handle to perfection, as I understand steel quality does not matter to much for them, but ergo is what really important.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

Again, do you know the seals personally? NOT. They use what is issued to them and only a few are gung ho enough to purchase a 200-400 dollar knife. For most of them the Sog seal 2000 is enough.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top