Sebenza 25 - Do we need a more heavy duty knife?

Hawk45

Hawk45

Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
2,154
I'm all for improvements and refinement, but what I'm getting most about the new 25 is that it is "beefier" or "tougher" than the 21. Yeah, the pivot changed and the finger grooves, but it seems the big talk is the blade thickness.

So who's broken a blade on a 21 and sees the need? Do we need a thicker blade really?

I'm new to CRK but been though enough 'overbuilt' knives to know their isn't much of a real world need for them for EDC, just more weight and less cutting ability. I think most guys don't take their knives to near the limit they are built these days (myself included).

I really prefer the looks of the 21 and even the Classic to the new 25 myself.
 
I am also new to CRK. I picked up a small 21 last month, then a large 21, and then I bought a 25 and received it a few days ago and love is not a strong enough word to describe my feelings for this knife. It's all about personal preference man. Everybody is different and has different likes and dislikes. For me, I prefer the overall stouter build of the 25, not because the 21 wasn't strong enough, or because the blade was too thin. I just like it because I do. Why are their hundreds of different inlayed sebenza's? Do you really "need" these inlayed versions? No, we do not, but they're awesome none the less, and change, when done right, is a good thing. I wouldn't say the 25 is overbuilt at all. In fact, it has the save pivot and blade thickness as the Umnumzaan which is one of THE most popular and loved knives CRK makes.

The reason I like the 25 is due to the fact that it combines the robust features of the Umnum and the styling of the 21. Also, to say this knife has less cutting ability has not been the case with my use of the 25. The .015" added thickness to the blade does not really affect it's slicing ability but it does add to knives overall stouter build when compared with the 21. This is not say the 21 isn't solid because it is. I LOVE my 21 and will never sell this knife. With this said though and because I own the large 21 and 25, for my purposes and my preferences, I prefer the 25.

I will agree that there are knives out there that are overbuilt, but the 25 is not one of them. Being someone that has both the 21 and the 25, I have compared these knives exhaustively and have come to the conclusion that the 25 is the one I prefer. Like I said before though, it's all about preference. The 25 or Umnum was not put into production because the blade on the 21 was too thin, but because there is a demand for different styles of knives because everyone's preferences are different.
 
SHAKEandBAKE said:
The 25 or Umnum was not put into production because the blade on the 21 was too thin, but because there is a demand for different styles of knives because everyone's preferences are different.
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I agree with you, but as someone who prefers the 21, what happens when they discontinue it? Then my options are the thicker blade Umnum and thicker blade 25.
 
steff27 said:
Adding inlays doesn't change the cutting performance. Sadly, making a blade thicker does. Maybe the change from hollow to near flat grind offsets that effect.
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I wasn't implying the inlays effect anything, in fact that was just my point. I was simply pointing out that changes made to knives whether they are functional or aesthetic are not necessarily made because something needs to fixed. The original poster pointed out that the 21's blade thickness was fine, and did not need to be changed. Also, I think it's a little silly that everyone is freaking out because of the thicker blade. The Umnumzaan which is one the most sought after and functional knives CRK makes has the same blade thickness as the 25. I feel as if people are expecting the added .015" to the blade thickness of the 25 will perhaps make cutting tasks impossible. Having several different knives with thicknesses at .140 and thicker are perfectly capable of easy slicing.
 
humblerodent said:
I agree with you, but as someone who prefers the 21, what happens when they discontinue it? Then my options are the thicker blade Umnum and thicker blade 25.
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Well, I have heard that the 21 will and will not be discontinued so I don't really know what's going to happen. If in fact they will be, this transition will take several years giving anyone who is a fan of the 21 plenty of time to do what they need to do to ensure they have enough 21's to last them. With this said though, even if the 21 will be discontinued, it's not like the 21 will disappear from the face of the earth. If you have a need for another 21, there will still be people selling them second hand and even people selling them new that bought them and didn't use them. So let's say you have four Sebenza 21's, or even 1 for that matter when CRK decides to pull the plug on production of them if this will in fact even happen, which it might not. You still have your sebenza's, you will still be able to find them used, and the ones you do have will last you a lifetime and will continue to be covered under CRK's lifetime warranty. Now, if you want a brand new mammoth inlay Sebenza 21 direct from the factory, you are $&@% out of luck. You may be able to find one second hand, or even a new perhaps from someone who bought it and didn't use it.

But I'd like to think with the popularity of the 21 with the .125 blade thickness and the loved bushing system that CRK will not phase these out. Maybe the Umnum will be replaced by the 25, it's all speculation at this point. Maybe CRK will introduce a new version of the 21. Who knows. You just have to take comfort in the fact that CRK has ALWAYS taken care of it's customers.
 
Agreed about options, but I do hope they keep the 21, to me I just prefer the looks. And if more options are better, so are more models. I see the 25 as a 'classier' less 'tactical' looking Umz, which isn't a bad idea. But keeping the 21 with the HGs (and especially the Insingo) would give 4 options instead of just 2 (if the 21 and Insingo go away).
 
Hawk45 said:
Agreed about options, but I do hope they keep the 21, to me I just prefer the looks. And if more options are better, so are more models. I see the 25 as a 'classier' less 'tactical' looking Umz, which isn't a bad idea. But keeping the 21 with the HGs (and especially the Insingo) would give 4 options instead of just 2 (if the 21 and Insingo go away).
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Agreed man, I hope they keep the 21 too. I gotta get my hands on a large 21 mammoth inlay, so nice. I haven't warmed up to the insingo blade style yet but like most CRK fan's, I do not doubt that I eventually will. But yeah, for the sake of preference and the fact that everyone likes something different, they really do need to keep the 21 as it's responsible for much of CRK success.
 
I had a 21 insingo prior to getting at 25. I have since traded away my insingo (I am not the type to have several, similar knives). I would say that the 25 is just as capable of slicing as the 21 insingo was. The thicker blade doesn't hinder cutting ability at all thanks to the new blade grind. What I really like is the new lockup. The ceramic ball lock interface is unique and robust. Not that there is ANY issue with a normal frame lock! I just apprecate the novelty and engineering involved. The extra heft and finger groove give a slightly different feel, which fits my hand perfectly. That being said, options are good and I really hope they continue to make the 21 for a long time!
 
MRaymond said:
I had a 21 insingo prior to getting at 25. I have since traded away my insingo (I am not the type to have several, similar knives). I would say that the 25 is just as capable of slicing as the 21 insingo was. The thicker blade doesn't hinder cutting ability at all thanks to the new blade grind. What I really like is the new lockup. The ceramic ball lock interface is unique and robust. Not that there is ANY issue with a normal frame lock! I just apprecate the novelty and engineering involved. The extra heft and finger groove give a slightly different feel, which fits my hand perfectly. That being said, options are good and I really hope they continue to make the 21 for a long time!
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Agreed man. I always say that it's the little things with the 25 that make it very unique and usable. The large and stronger pivot, thicker and stronger blade that is still a very capable slicer, the finger grooves for a better grip, the ceramic ball detent/lock up that will almost eliminate any lock bar wear, the loss of the machine and lanyard hole giving it a more smooth look. To me, this is the perfect package. With this said, like you, I still love my 21 and hope they continue making them because more options are better as everyones preferences are different.

You just gotta love the 25 though. I'm going to do a take down video here in a couple weeks so keep an eye out for that.
 
I can tell you my 25 even with the thicker blade slice's better than my Umnum or 21's. I still love my 21's though and never felt they're lacking anything. My 25 seem's to hold an edge better also:thumbup:
 
jwolf90 said:
I can tell you my 25 even with the thicker blade slice's better than my Umnum or 21's. I still love my 21's though and never felt they're lacking anything. My 25 seem's to hold an edge better also:thumbup:
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Interesting, the increased edge retention is probably because of the extreme shallow hollow grind or whatever CRK is calling it. It seems to be the best of both worlds because you get better edge retention and a long sharpening life. Question for you, you know if it's ok to get CRK flourinated grease on the ceramic ball? I'm assuming it's ok but I figured I'd ask. Also, I hear a lot of people using not loctite for the pivot, I heard people using purple loctite, and I hear people using teflon tape. What's ur experience with this?
 
Yes it's ok to have grease on the ball, and I use the purple loctite that came with the Umnum tool's. I've found just a touch of Nano-oil on the detent path is magical on most every folder I've tried it on but the CRK grease worked just fine too:thumbup:
 
jwolf90 said:
Yes it's ok to have grease on the ball, and I use the purple loctite that came with the Umnum tool's. I've found just a touch of Nano-oil on the detent path is magical on most every folder I've tried it on but the CRK grease worked just fine too:thumbup:
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You know any place to buy purple loctite like at a store? I ordered some off of amazon but would like to have a place to go to just because. I actually used some Teflon tape today and it seems to work quite well. I'm gonna see how we'll the tape works over the next couple of weeks until I take my 25 apart to do a take down video.
 
I'm with ya OP.
I much prefer the pivot, handle, and blade of the Reg/Classic/21.
Hopefully they won't discontinue the 21.

.125 is plenty thick for me, and the pivot design on the Reg/Classic/21 is the best ever made IMO, and I don't care for the extra finger notch on the 25 handle.
 
I agree, I much prefer the 21. I've never used a 25 so my opinion may change, but judging by pics and videos I don't see anything appealing with the 25. It seems like a downgrade in a few ways IMO. Once the 25s become easier to get I may take one for a spin to see how it is. I honestly don't understand why CRK made recent changes to his other folders either. The new Mnandi's can't be opened with one hand, the Zaan has a different pivot and lockbar disk(some ways is good but the old style is the Zaan's trademark IMO), the 25 is a mixture of the 21 and a Zaan. Personally, I think he should of left the designs alone and focused more on upgrading steels and heat treat.
 
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Hawk45 said:
I'm all for improvements and refinement, but what I'm getting most about the new 25 is that it is "beefier" or "tougher" than the 21. Yeah, the pivot changed and the finger grooves, but it seems the big talk is the blade thickness.

So who's broken a blade on a 21 and sees the need? Do we need a thicker blade really?

I'm new to CRK but been though enough 'overbuilt' knives to know their isn't much of a real world need for them for EDC, just more weight and less cutting ability. I think most guys don't take their knives to near the limit they are built these days (myself included).

I really prefer the looks of the 21 and even the Classic to the new 25 myself.
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I totally agree
 
The 25 is one of the knives you can't assess by looking at pictures.
Once you have it in your hand you'll see what I mean. It's awesome.
I wouldn't give away my other CRKs but the 25 has replaced any other as my EDC since I have it.
 
stock up on your 21's :p but the 25's are still only in the large run, with smalls not even in the picture let alone any other options, so the 21's will be around for a good bit for if you're worried about them being phased out.
 
The pivot and finger grooves are what keeps me from owning a 25. I love the simplicity of the pre-25 handles, and to me a Sebenza without the bushing pivot just isn't a Sebenza.
 
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