Sebenza 25 pivot problem

Aoliver

Aoliver

Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
18
So I have 2 Sebenza 25's that both seem to be exhibiting something strange. I noticed that when the blade is in between the open and closed position a noticeable wiggle can be felt when gently tugging on the blade . At first I thought it might just be the washer moving but upon taking both of them apart I put the pivot through the pivot hole in the blade and you can literally wiggle the pivot inside the pivot hole. Almost as if the pivot hole cut into the blade is too big. The play can not be felt when it is locked open or closed only when traveling out of the handle to the locked position. I find this extremely hard to believe given Chris Reeves extremely tight tolerances.

Should I send both in for service or is this just something that's normal? Both knives do the same thing One born in 2013 and one born in 2016. Both knives were purchased from authorized dealers.

I know it doesn't affect the function of the knife it just bothers me. Any suggestions?
 
Aoliver said:
So I have 2 Sebenza 25's that both seem to be exhibiting something strange. I noticed that when the blade is in between the open and closed position a noticeable wiggle can be felt when gently tugging on the blade . At first I thought it might just be the washer moving but upon taking both of them apart I put the pivot through the pivot hole in the blade and you can literally wiggle the pivot inside the pivot hole. Almost as if the pivot hole cut into the blade is too big. The play can not be felt when it is locked open or closed only when traveling out of the handle to the locked position. I find this extremely hard to believe given Chris Reeves extremely tight tolerances.

Should I send both in for service or is this just something that's normal? Both knives do the same thing One born in 2013 and one born in 2016. Both knives were purchased from authorized dealers.

I know it doesn't affect the function of the knife it just bothers me. Any suggestions?
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I have only owned the 1 crk which is the small inkosi and I agree with the tiny wobble as well with mine but not sure if it's meant to be like that or not. I've taken mine apart, cleaned, regreased and tuned it but still does it, only minuscule but is still there. Hopefully someone else here can help! Sorry!

Andrew
 
nigel.raymond said:
I have only owned the 1 crk which is the small inkosi and I agree with the tiny wobble as well with mine but not sure if it's meant to be like that or not. I've taken mine apart, cleaned, regreased and tuned it but still does it, only minuscule but is still there. Hopefully someone else here can help! Sorry!

Andrew
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Very interesting. Thanks for the info!
 
All my knives including CRK's have that tiny bit of wiggle, it's just clearance and aids assembly, without it guiding the blade hole over the pivot could be rather difficult if the parts were slightly out of spec.
 
Totally normal, and present on all my CRKs. You have to keep in mind, that even the smallest clearance gap, when "amplified" by geometry, will seem like a lot out at the tip of the blade. The pivot will wear, as anything must, so the wiggle may get greater over time, but as stated by the previous poster, without a little bit of a gap, there would be no room for grease, and even slight temperature difference might seize the parts together. The tolerances allow for this. Part of the legendary CRK tolerances, includes things not being so tight they don't fit or do not work. If you watch the blade HQ shop tour video, at one point there is a guy using a "go/no-go" gauge while honing a blade hole. The "go" will include enough 'oversize' to allow the knife to function properly.

It is important to note that what we are discussing is up/down wiggle (only when the blade is neither fully open nor fully closed), not side-to-side play. My CRKs have no side-to-side play.
 
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Thank you for the input everyone! I did notice that if I coat the actual pivot lug with grease the wiggle goes away completely. You guys definitely put my mind at ease. I am just getting into CRK's and already find myself wanting another 😜
 
Aoliver said:
Thank you for the input everyone! I did notice that if I coat the actual pivot lug with grease the wiggle goes away completely. You guys definitely put my mind at ease. I am just getting into CRK's and already find myself wanting another ��
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Maybe that's why I've never felt/seen any play in the 25's that I have, I've always greased the pivot barrel/lug along with the blade side of the washers. Had me worried for a moment.
Went and checked all my 25's to see if any had any play......they don't. :)
 
Aoliver said:
Thank you for the input everyone! I did notice that if I coat the actual pivot lug with grease the wiggle goes away completely. You guys definitely put my mind at ease. I am just getting into CRK's and already find myself wanting another [emoji12]
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From my own limited experience, this is much better than having a pivot lug that is too big. I recently sent my Ti-lock in because it could not be disassembled and even completely locked up when I tried to add a little more force. CRK's incredible service fixed it and mailed it back to me free of charge.

There's always a possibility of having a problem, but for me, I'll keep coming back to CRK because they put their heart into their products and always stand behind them.
 
Wrobelan said:
From my own limited experience, this is much better than having a pivot lug that is too big. I recently sent my Ti-lock in because it could not be disassembled and even completely locked up when I tried to add a little more force. CRK's incredible service fixed it and mailed it back to me free of charge.

There's always a possibility of having a problem, but for me, I'll keep coming back to CRK because they put their heart into their products and always stand behind them.
Click to expand...
Glad to hear they fixed it up for you. I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with their customer service yet but I'm quite confident that if I do have a problem they will stand behind their product and make it right.
 
I have two 25s and your post had me checking both to see if I had any wobble and all is good.


I got ninety nine problems but a pivot ain't... aww, nvm.
 
If I read the OP right, I get a similar wiggle, barely detectable, just as the blade begins to move with the three different CRK models I am fortunate to own. Less noticeable with fresh grease. I figure it's normal, or at the very least within tolerance.
 
I've just checked by umnumzaan and 21 Large and both do have a slight wiggle which is unnoticeable till now.
 
Thanks for all the input guys! Its obviously supposed to be that way if almost all of us have experienced it. I too agree that the wiggle goes away completely with fresh grease in the pivot. I have a 21 with Gabon Ebony inlays on the way. I will report back if the wiggle is present in it as well.
 
kidcongo said:
Totally normal, and present on all my CRKs. You have to keep in mind, that even the smallest clearance gap, when "amplified" by geometry, will seem like a lot out at the tip of the blade. The pivot will wear, as anything must, so the wiggle may get greater over time, but as stated by the previous poster, without a little bit of a gap, there would be no room for grease, and even slight temperature difference might seize the parts together. The tolerances allow for this. Part of the legendary CRK tolerances, includes things not being so tight they don't fit or do not work. If you watch the blade HQ shop tour video, at one point there is a guy using a "go/no-go" gauge while honing a blade hole. The "go" will include enough 'oversize' to allow the knife to function properly.

It is important to note that what we are discussing is up/down wiggle (only when the blade is neither fully open nor fully closed), not side-to-side play. My CRKs have no side-to-side play.
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I'm having a hard time narrowing down specifically what you guys are talking about, but your last paragraph Kid accurately describes the issue(I think).

When I grab the knife (I'm right handed) handle, slabs etc in my right hand and open the blade say halfway and with my left hand wiggle it up and down or a better term would be to cycle it up and down, I feel a slip or like everyone says a "wiggle". I've noticed this for as long as I've had CRK'S and it bugs the hell out of me. Yes, it does go away with a regular lube. I've never been able to pin point what was causing it. Glad this topic was brought up, thanks OP and Kids for the clarification.
 
Hi everybody,

I also have this "blade-wiggle" at my Sebenza 25 - does anybody has a statement from Chris Reeve about this issue?
I cannot believe, that this gap/play/tolerance between pivot and blade-hole is mandatory necessary that the knife functions in every case.
I think millions of other knives has tighter tolerances between pivot and
blade-hole and therefore no noticeable wiggling of the blade
and I never heart from any Benchmade, Spyderco or whatever that their knives seize at cold or hot weather-conditions or that they have other problems with their knives.
In my opinion this issue is a loss in quality - if there is already a certain gap existing between pivot and blade dust and dirt can get in and increase steadily the wiggling.
It couldn´t also been seriously intended from Chris Reeve to disassemble and grease again the Sebenza every few weeks to get the
wiggling away.

Best regards
 
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Well, if it indicates a loss in quality, that started a long time ago, as my MIB Regular Sebenza that has never been carried, or used, has the same up/down play. Dust cannot get into the pivot if the washers are flush against the sides of the blade, as they should be. The inner, solid, concentric ring on the washer will prevent that if properly sealed with a fine film of grease.

CRK quality is increasing. Just look at the precision of the fasteners in the last year or two compared to what they were putting out a few years ago. Blades are better as well with the new hardness.
 
Hello Cody,

I think "loss in quality" is the wrong phrase - but with this wiggling of the blade, the customer/owner of a CRK lose a part of
the good impression of an otherwise perfect knife. If you feel this play first time, you will be once very disappointed as
many other very, very cheaper knives doesn´t have this "feature". First thought is, that this might be an issue of
bad quality.
I´ve considered long time about this issue and now my thinking goes in another way.
As a lot of other users confirm this wiggling, it is undoubted a "wanted" tolerance - and as every little thing on Chris' knives
is a well-thought-out solution - improved over the last 30 years - it must have a meaningful purpose.
I think Chris' intention was, to build his knives for a very, very long time of usage - means they should work every day for 10, 20
or 30 years. If you have a knife, which is not intended to be opened and at which the blade is running "dry" on the pivot, this would
cause wear over the years (metal on metal) and some day also irreversible up/down or blade-play.
With steadily grease between blade and pivot, the tolerance between blade and pivot should be for a long time the same.
In my opinion, this is the background and that why the wiggling is no bad quality but make sense for a long lifetime.

BR
Thomas
 
Opening and closing a 25 thousands of times will not wear the pivot any appreciable amount. The pivot is not under rotational load. It would certainly be serviceable for a very long time, perhaps 25 years or longer. With significant use the blade would need replacing long before then.
 
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Tomba said:
Hi everybody,
I think millions of other knives has tighter tolerances between pivot and
blade-hole and therefore no noticeable wiggling of the blade
and I never heart from any Benchmade, Spyderco or whatever that their knives seize at cold or hot weather-conditions or that they have other problems with their knives.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect, grab any frame lock knife, open half way, hold a little pressure on the lock bar and wiggle, you'll feel the tolerances regardless of brand. Because most other lock types put pressure to the spine of the blade it can't be readily felt.

For instance, if you grab a BM, pull back on the axis lock, hold onto the thumb studs and pull back and forth, you'll feel it clunking from the tolerances. Open a Spydie backlock, hold down on the lock and pull the blade back and forth and you'll feel the same...

Without these slightly oversized holes assembly would be difficult, all knives have them to varying degrees and can be felt, you just need to know how to look for it.

* Just thought I'd add that some coated blade models don't show the wiggle quite as obviously as the coating tightens the tolerances.
 
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