Second bevel on scandi knives

J

J-P SAN

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Apr 23, 2013
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Do you put second bevel on your scandi knives? As a finn, I'm quite suprised how people in foreign countries have becomed sort of 'elitist' about pure scandi zero bevel edges. Opinions?


My philosophy is, if it cuts thin paper like air and shaves smoothly, it doesn't matter what bevel profile it has.
 
As an American (who likes puukkot a lot) I can see a zero bevel for specialized purposes. But in ordinary use a microbevel adds life to the edge and scarcely reduces effectiveness.

I think the zero bevel is a way for the maker to say, See how sharp my knives can be? Now if you plan on using them with more force than finesse, please adjust the edge to suit your own preference.
 
I tend to put a micro bevel on to extend the life of the edge. I can still appreciate the zero grind as an exercise in precision.
 
I use a slight convex on mine, maybe a degree from shoulder to edge. Toughens up the edge a bit without a microbevel. That's a lot of stock removal to grind a new edge if the microbevel gets large. All depends on the tools you have to maintain the edge, some will tend toward a microbevel and some won't. Using it with a zero grind makes for a delicate edge.
 
I'd like to know is there more people like me in these forums who like to 'modify' their scandi knives.

Another thing is steel loss. When I back bevel my scandi knives, meaning I grind the actual scandi bevel, I remove tons of steel. Now if I would do this everytime when sharpening a scandi, I would reduce the lifetime of my knive quite much. Opinions about this?
 
I have never sharpened the actual scandi bevel. I always use a slight microbevel, as on all my other knives.
 
J-P SAN said:
I'd like to know is there more people like me in these forums who like to 'modify' their scandi knives.

Another thing is steel loss. When I back bevel my scandi knives, meaning I grind the actual scandi bevel, I remove tons of steel. Now if I would do this everytime when sharpening a scandi, I would reduce the lifetime of my knive quite much. Opinions about this?
Click to expand...

I look at it as being a lot of metal over a really large area. I find it easier than the amount of steel I remove from my full convex edges needed to maintain geometry. In the long run, my Scandis are the easiest to keep up at a high level of performance of all the edge types I own.
 
I keep my scandis at zero. mainly because I use them mainly for carving and light fire prep but also because I always have more than one knife at any time..

I love carving and feather sticks/shavings with a zero bevel...

I have never had rolled edges with my O1 scandis (which may be down to the way I use them).
 
I Resharpened 3 mora scandi grinds at zero on waterstones. It was a learning experience, I have not used them since. Maybe I'll try a micro bevel on one.
 
0 bevel is mainly important for wood carving. Having 0 bevel allows you to have more control because there is a huge bevel for the cut to ride on. With a secondary bevel when you lay the main bevel flat, the edge is no longer touching the wood and it pries the grain instead of slicing.
 
Do you consider a 24 or 25 degree inclusive edge to be an overly acute edge angle; one that would be subject to failure or overly weak? Most Scandinavian grinds are right in this neighborhood. Many of my knives carry edges at this angle and I don't consider it to be overly acute. If you wouldn't put a micro bevel or convex on an edge at this angle on a hunting knife; why would you want to do it on a scandi ground blade? Its the same thing just the height of the grind is different.

I just say this for the sake of argument. In realty I prefer sharpening edges using multiply edge angles; I believe it to be easier to accomplish and maintain, removes less material overall and makes keeping a superb apex on your knife far easier.

Sharpening seems to always present trade offs. One action offsets another. An accomplished sharpener understands how these trade offs work.


Have a nice 4th of July! Fred
 
I have a scandi bushcrafter to a zero edge. But I slightly convex the left face (as I'm left handed) and keep the right face as dead flat as possible. The slight convexity makes the edge a lot more durable and being that I only convex the side of the knife away from me when I cut say a piece of wood, the wood more easily curls out while the face contacting the wood is relatively flat letting the edge bite into and easily "glide" across it.
 
HeavyHanded said:
I use a slight convex on mine, maybe a degree from shoulder to edge. Toughens up the edge a bit without a microbevel. That's a lot of stock removal to grind a new edge if the microbevel gets large. All depends on the tools you have to maintain the edge, some will tend toward a microbevel and some won't. Using it with a zero grind makes for a delicate edge.
Click to expand...

Heavy,

Any chance you have a pic or two of the edge of a scandi with your convex microbevel? I am just fooling around with a Enzo Trapper blank now, and would like a visual idea of your microbevel if thats possible.

Thanks
 
Danketch said:
Heavy,

Any chance you have a pic or two of the edge of a scandi with your convex microbevel? I am just fooling around with a Enzo Trapper blank now, and would like a visual idea of your microbevel if thats possible.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I actually avoid any sort of obvious microbevel in favor of a very slight convex from shoulder to edge. In practice, it winds up being very slight, maybe a degree, but is enough at the approx 24-25* inclusive angle on most of my Scandis to really toughen up the edge. Any thinner and it looses a lot of utility though becomes a real nice carving knife if used with a lot of care. This is an older pic I took with a few endgrain paper strops and doesn't show it off very well, but the reflection shows what I'm describing. I actually used this knife or its cousin in the first four WB demo videos (2 and 4 mostly in this respect) and talk about how I get there - very easy. Just apply slight pressure with the fingertips right at the shoulder transition, well up the bevel - still keeping the bevel face flat on the surface by feel. After a bit of grinding or polishing, just shift the fingertips closer to the apex. You won't even really feel much difference on the stone, but if using radial lines with a Sharpie, you'll see how it works. This is how I do my full convex as well. If shooting for a totally flat bevel face, I just keep the fingertip pressure on the shoulder transition and grind a bit longer. Both methods work on hard stones just as well as the WB with sandpaper.

1204021931.jpg
 
Eager puukko user, still have to find a handforged one completely ground to zero. In my experience (Hurttila, Seikku, Malinen, Mäkinen) all have somekind of tiny microbevl, flat or convex. Various steels involved (K510, W2, 52100, 1070), all in the 20-22° area and all in the 59-62 HRC range.
All used exclusively for carving on dry wood, mainly maple, yew and oak; stropping has always been enough.
 
If you want a secondary bevel, then don't buy a scandi knife. Putting a second bevel on a scandi knife is like buying a long sleeve shirt then cutting the sleeves off instead of buying a short sleeved shirt to begin with. It is pointless and stupid. Buy a knife that fits your purpose.
 
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