Secondary blade placement; mark side vs. pile side; vs nail nicks

[bdev]

I'm just curious about something.
The GEC Pemberton, as well as other GEC jack patterns (other manufacturers as well), have their secondary blades on the mark side.
If you look at the Case peanut, the secondary is on the file side.
Case's design allows the nail nicks on both blades to be opposite each other which gives easy access to the master blade's nail nick.
The Pemberton, and other 2 blade jack designs, places both nail nicks on the mark side (except my 56 pattern jack) which makes it difficult on some knives to open the master blade (clip masters have less of a problem). I remember reading on the forum that some guys were having trouble, especially with spear/pen combos.
I guess my question is.....is this done because of traditional design? It would seem functionally better to have both nail nicks oppose each other.
Just curious.

 

[Coopsta]

It would seem functionally better to have both nail nicks oppose each other.
Just curious.

Seems to me it's functionally advantageous to only require one hand motion to open either blade. If you can fit the nail nicks in there that is.

 

[Jack Black]

I think it's more traditional to have the nicks (or pull) on the same side, and I think Jacks look better like that. I grew up with that blade configuration, and even now I find it strange to have to turn a knife around. However, obviously when putting the nicks on the same side, consideration has to be given to the secondary blade not blocking the nick or pull on the primary, and this may mean the primary has to sit a little higher in the frame than it would otherwise. I had a particular problem with my first Boy's Knife (Spear and Pen), and had to return it. I now have a great Boy's Knife of the same pattern, which Dan sent me, and that opens fine. Charlie recently sent me one of his Barlows with the nick and pull on different sides, but I like that, everytime I use it, it causes me to pause, and think of what a great knife it is and what a generous gift, and remind me of the problem I had with my first #15 and how helpful Charlie was then (and Dan of course)

 

[Halfneck]

This was one of the main reasons I got the single blade Pemberton over the 2 blade version. I only have 1 functional arm/hand and open slipjoints in a weird convoluted way. While I could do it, it was a lot harder than on my Case Peanut or Medium Jack.

 

[Planterz]

My opinion is split. On one hand, I prefer the main blade to be on the front side, since, being right-handed, it's positioned best for cutting things without the handle thickness getting in the way. On the other hand, accessing and opening the secondary blade on such a knife is awkward. I either have to hold the knife weirdly, or I have to use the nail on my middle finger, which is a lot less strong than my thumbnail, to open it (which is also somewhat awkward).

That's one reason that the Hawbaker muskrat is my favorite pattern. You get the 2 most useful blades a knife can offer, both are optimally positioned, and easily opened. Lefties might disagree.

 

[quattromori]

Just like Aaron, my opinion is split, and in the end it depends on the pattern. I've been through the same struggle while Jared and I were talking about my N.E.Whaler project.
On one side, I like both nicks on the same side, cause I don't have to change my grip to open either blade.
But...
On some patterns (frames and blade combos), this either brings to a main blade sitting higher than I'd like to, or to a difficult access to the main blade behind the secondary (I had the same issue with my GEC #15). Nicks on opposite sides often allow for blades to sit lower, which is more comfortable in use. Also, I like the spine of both blades to sit at the same level when the knife is closed.
In the end, I don't have a definitive answer. It just depends.

Fausto

 

[black mamba]

Until recently, GEC usually did their jacks with the secondary behind the main and nicks on both sides. Nearly all the older jacks you see have both nicks on the mark side, with secondary in front. This is my preferred arrangement. We've had this discussion before, and it seemed that most like both nicks on the mark side. Thanks to GEC for listening. This is one of the reasons I like a muskrat or California clip on a two-blade jack, because it can be in front and still leave plenty of room for a secondary behind with mark side nick, without being too tall or deep through the blades.

When I open a traditional with mark side nick, I hold it in my left hand, spine up, and open the blade to the right with my right hand. If the secondary is behind, with the nick pile side, I rotate the spine down to expose the nick, and still open it to the right with my right hand. I don't like to use my left hand to open blades.

 

[markpmc]

I'm with Jeff. Here's hoping that he posts pics of the GEC Jacks w/ the pulls on the same side :thumbup:

 

[2Dead]

I agree with Jeff on the placement of the secondary blade. I open my knives a little differently, I usually hold the knife vertically with my left hand so the spine is facing my left hand. For Jacks, on a mark side facing blade, the opening pivot is facing downward and, with my right thumb, I open the blade outward while also moving the handle downward to be horizontal. On a pile side facing blade, the opening pivot is pointing up and as I open the blade with my right thumb, the handle is moved in an upward position until its horizontal.

 

[black mamba]

I'm with Jeff. Here's hoping that he posts pics of the GEC Jacks w/ the pulls on the same side :thumbup:

Here are one each of the mark side nicked GEC 2-blade jacks that I have. Trand can probably add to this array.

#15 (3.47"), #85 (3.63"), #92 (3.68"), #73 (3.75"), #74 (3.87"), #53 (4.11")

 

[rune1279]

It's an interesting topic, isn't it? I've got a kind of fondness for the opposed-nick setup that Case uses. Being a southpaw, I hold the knife in my left hand and open with my right. Palm-up/clockwise opens the main, palm-down/counterclockwise opens the pen. I like that I can do the selection without looking. (In theory, anyway -- in practice I carry so many different knives I end up always having to look.)

Amusingly, I've got a couple vintage queen #2 jacks that do the opposed-nick setup, but the new production ones, as far as I can tell from photos, do both nicks on the mark side. Anybody know when they switched?

I suspect that both nicks on the mark side takes a fair bit more care when adjusting the kicks so the nicks don't overlap. The opposed-nick setup probably lets a high-production outfit like Case save some time and money.

--Mark

 

[2Dead]

I just don't have them closed Jeff but if it helps...

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