Seems too good to be true, so, will this work?

Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
145
I can buy plain cloth belts.
I can buy an 80 grit compound.
Can I load this belt and expect to cut a primary bevel on AEBL ?
I assume if the lower grits get good progress, the finer grit compounds will be just fine.

It looks like a more economical way to keep a sharp belt.
Has anyone had any success going this route?

I NEED J weights to run a waterfall type attatchments. I want to stretch out the belt budget.
 
"Can I load this belt and expect to cut a primary bevel on AEBL ?" - Short answer - No.

Plain cloth belts are for charging with compound abrasives. Consider them an alternative to a buffing wheel.
They are usually charged with bar/stick type compound impregnated with fine grit or various polishes. I don't think you will find any with a coarse grit. I use them from time to time with black emery compound. That is the coarsest grade of compound I know of. Emery is for a pre-polishing step called "cutting", not a material removal step.

The second reason J-weight would be a problem for 80 grit is mechanics/physics. The larger grains won't "bend" around the idler wheel or waterfall edge as easily as finer grit. It will break the backing glue bond, and the grit will come off the belt quickly. This is why you don't see commercial J-weight coarse belts.

80-grit will fly off the belt almost immediately in any grinding attempt on a homemade belt. The way it is bonded on commercial belts is much stronger than any homemade glue attempt.

Belts are made in long rolls and cut and spliced to different sies later in the process. Making one up on an already spliced belt would add considerable problems in itself. Despite what you may see on YouTube, you really can't splice belts yourself at home. The glues used are very special and it is done on a specialized machine.

Here is part of an article by Klingspore that explains the process:

2. Maker Coat​

The maker coat is the first layer of adhesive bonding that is applied to the backing. The purpose of the maker coat is to provide a seat for the grit that will be attached in the electrostatic coating process. It is what adheres the grit to the backing. Most of the bonding agents today are synthetic resins and are phenolic which ensures a sturdy, heat-resistant connection of the abrasive grit and the backing.

3. Electrostatic Coating​

Electrostatic coating is a process in which a plate with a negative charge is placed above the backing (which has the maker coat applied), and a plate with a positive charge below a loose grain conveyer containing abrasive grit. The grit has been graded several times to obtain the appropriate size. This results in a separate charge being created between the two plates that pulls loose grit up from the conveyor and onto the backing in such a way that each abrasive grain is consistently oriented on the backing with a broad base against the backing and a sharp end pointing out. This is the most common method for coating backings with abrasives in use today.

There is another method of grain coating called gravity coating, which simply drops the grit through the use of gravity onto the backing without orienting it as the electrostatic method does. This method is still sometimes used today for coarser grits but would be most ineffective for any finishing grit. This process may be modified to alter how much grit is applied to the backing, determining whether a product is a closed coat, semi-open, or fully open coat.

This is done by inserting a filtering screen between the maker coat and the loose grit conveyor that will only allow 50 - 70% of the backing to be coated in grit.

4. Curing​

After the maker coat has been applied and the electrostatically placed grit has been added, the material is run through curing ovens to ensure a good bond between the grit and the backing. You can have the best grit and backing in the world, but if they do not remain connected, the products will not be effective.

Curing oven times and temperatures vary depending on the types and sizes of grit, the backing, and the type of bonding agents used. Once this initial curing is completed, you are ready to add the second layer of adhesive bonding, which is the size coat.

5. Size Coat​

The second layer of adhesive bonding, referred to as the size coat has two main purposes. The first is to tie the individual grains on the abrasive backing together to act as a unit instead of as individual grains. The other function of the size coat is to act as a heat shield for the grit. As previously discussed, most of the bonding agents in coated abrasives are phenolic resins, which after curing, are heat resistant.

Too much size coat or too little size coat can cause performance and finishing issues. Too much size coat and the grit won't be able to cut, instead creating a shiny effect on the abrasive's surface. It can often result in burning of both the abrasive and the workpiece. This is called glazing.

Too little and the abrasive grains won't act as a unit and will shed individually under pressure. Glazing and shedding are primary indicators that something may have gone wrong during the application of the size coat.

The application of the size coat is also where several optional steps may occur. These would include but not be limited to the addition of dyes, stearates, and lubricants. The size coat is a critical part of the making process that can have far-reaching effects on both the life and finishing properties of the coated abrasives.

6. Curing (Again)​

After the size coat is applied, another curing step needs to be implemented to ensure the bonding agents cure completely.
 
Merit, Starcke and 3m Cubitron 726 are nice j flex ceramics in 120, 220 and up to 400 in the 726. I believe there may be some 80's in one of those series too? I usually get the plunges close with the coarser grits, go to 120 jflex on up to clean up the plunges.
 
"Can I load this belt and expect to cut a primary bevel on AEBL ?" - Short answer - No.

Plain cloth belts are for charging with compound abrasives. Consider them an alternative to a buffing wheel.
They are usually charged with bar/stick type compound impregnated with fine grit or various polishes. I don't think you will find any with a coarse grit. I use them from time to time with black emery compound. That is the coarsest grade of compound I know of. Emery is for a pre-polishing step called "cutting", not a material removal step.

The second reason J-weight would be a problem for 80 grit is mechanics/physics. The larger grains won't "bend" around the idler wheel or waterfall edge as easily as finer grit. It will break the backing glue bond, and the grit will come off the belt quickly. This is why you don't see commercial J-weight coarse belts.

80-grit will fly off the belt almost immediately in any grinding attempt on a homemade belt. The way it is bonded on commercial belts is much stronger than any homemade glue attempt.

Belts are made in long rolls and cut and spliced to different sies later in the process. Making one up on an already spliced belt would add considerable problems in itself. Despite what you may see on YouTube, you really can't splice belts yourself at home. The glues used are very special and it is done on a specialized machine.

Here is part of an article by Klingspore that explains the process:

2. Maker Coat​

The maker coat is the first layer of adhesive bonding that is applied to the backing. The purpose of the maker coat is to provide a seat for the grit that will be attached in the electrostatic coating process. It is what adheres the grit to the backing. Most of the bonding agents today are synthetic resins and are phenolic which ensures a sturdy, heat-resistant connection of the abrasive grit and the backing.

3. Electrostatic Coating​

Electrostatic coating is a process in which a plate with a negative charge is placed above the backing (which has the maker coat applied), and a plate with a positive charge below a loose grain conveyer containing abrasive grit. The grit has been graded several times to obtain the appropriate size. This results in a separate charge being created between the two plates that pulls loose grit up from the conveyor and onto the backing in such a way that each abrasive grain is consistently oriented on the backing with a broad base against the backing and a sharp end pointing out. This is the most common method for coating backings with abrasives in use today.

There is another method of grain coating called gravity coating, which simply drops the grit through the use of gravity onto the backing without orienting it as the electrostatic method does. This method is still sometimes used today for coarser grits but would be most ineffective for any finishing grit. This process may be modified to alter how much grit is applied to the backing, determining whether a product is a closed coat, semi-open, or fully open coat.

This is done by inserting a filtering screen between the maker coat and the loose grit conveyor that will only allow 50 - 70% of the backing to be coated in grit.

4. Curing​

After the maker coat has been applied and the electrostatically placed grit has been added, the material is run through curing ovens to ensure a good bond between the grit and the backing. You can have the best grit and backing in the world, but if they do not remain connected, the products will not be effective.

Curing oven times and temperatures vary depending on the types and sizes of grit, the backing, and the type of bonding agents used. Once this initial curing is completed, you are ready to add the second layer of adhesive bonding, which is the size coat.

5. Size Coat​

The second layer of adhesive bonding, referred to as the size coat has two main purposes. The first is to tie the individual grains on the abrasive backing together to act as a unit instead of as individual grains. The other function of the size coat is to act as a heat shield for the grit. As previously discussed, most of the bonding agents in coated abrasives are phenolic resins, which after curing, are heat resistant.

Too much size coat or too little size coat can cause performance and finishing issues. Too much size coat and the grit won't be able to cut, instead creating a shiny effect on the abrasive's surface. It can often result in burning of both the abrasive and the workpiece. This is called glazing.

Too little and the abrasive grains won't act as a unit and will shed individually under pressure. Glazing and shedding are primary indicators that something may have gone wrong during the application of the size coat.

The application of the size coat is also where several optional steps may occur. These would include but not be limited to the addition of dyes, stearates, and lubricants. The size coat is a critical part of the making process that can have far-reaching effects on both the life and finishing properties of the coated abrasives.

6. Curing (Again)​

After the size coat is applied, another curing step needs to be implemented to ensure the bonding agents cure completely.

Tube PB 080 Satin-Glo Greaseless Compound​

I can get 2 3/4 lb tubes of 80-600 grit for 17 USD.
 
Used 80gr on a cloth belt. Made dust cakes like usual with the surface grinder attachment. If it cuts primary bevels with decent time, we will call this legit.
 
I can get good grit saturation into the belt and it cuts at least as good as I hoped. I am hogging with a ceramic #50 and only need the cloth belts for my waterfall.
I waste too much (they make this as a buffing compound as previously pointed out) applying it from the tube or in smaller bits from.

If I make a slurry in acetone or denatured alcohol I could wash it on pretty easily in theory. I am pretty sure that moisture is the gremlin in the seams of the belt. I have never seen one separate when dry. Tape just says no.

I can not prove or have the experience to know my problem may be overtension. I have no prior experience with cloth belts, at all! I built a House made kit a few years back, however, it has taken until last week to have a functional shop with tooling not being rolled around in carts. I finally have tuned tooling and it makes the world of diference. I may not be test pulling the freshly doped belt and using the adjustment following the 50gr factory ceramic, no go. I had taken breaks after belt set up and I have hade single belt service almost a dozen billets over at least 2 full days, with 2 recharges.
 
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