Sekicut Hiro VG10+VG10+VG10 blade?

nozh2002

nozh2002

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I just have presented to myself Sekicut Hiro folder. I am wondering what it is three layer VG10 blade? I can understand Fallkniven triple laminated blade 420J+VG10+420J, but what ther reason for VG10+VG10+VG10? It is defenetely three layer - you may see this on edge, in a back etc. But what the reason to make three layers of same steel?
Thanks, Vassili.
P.S. Amaizing knife - very underpriced on my opinion.
 
Hi nozh2002!

You did not specifie which particular of Hiros folder you meant(they make several different modells) but i think i know which one you mean anyway.Is it the "HIRO little blue liner lock",with quincewood handle you are refering to? The info text about the knife says it has a three layer VG-10 blade,but it also says that "the blade offers an etched temper liner for style". It makes me belive that the blade is made of just one solid piece of VG-10 steel,and that the text is missguiding. The "lamination line" are infact just a surface etching. However,the knife is a beuatifull and it truly has a low price!

Manowar
 
I don't know the knife, but I think if it would make only make sense to have three layers of the same steel sense if the outer layers are left pretty soft (in the very low fifties maybe), while the center layer could be hardened to HRC 60 or so.
 
You are exacetly right Manowar! It is this one - and I like it more and more.

http://store.yahoo.com/razorlimit1/sc-160mg.html

Three layera are visible not only on the edge but all around the blade - on the but etc. Same way Helle laminated blades looks. So it defenetely has three layers! But they more visible no the edge then on Helle - they etch it to be more visible I suppose.
I'll make some pictures later today with magnified view.
Is is really possible to harden different layers and then burn them together (espetially stainless)? As I understand this days they made it from powder using vacuum owen or something. I can not imagine how to harden middle layer diferently.
May be the reason for this - better stress handling? Like in old cheap car springs.
Thanks,
Vassili.
 
Vassili, welcome to Bladeforums!

Both referenced ads say it is three actual layers, with etching to make the line more visible. Typical of advertising, it isn't as clear as it might be, and I don't think they should be calling this a "temper line".

"The 2-3/4" three-layered VG-10 mirror polished blade offers an etched temper liner for style."

"2.75 in. three-layed VG-10 mirror polished blade."

I suppose this makes sense if the center layer is harder than the outer layers. But why use the same steel, rather than a cheaper steel for the outer layers? First, VG-10 is also very stain-resistant. Second, in Seki, it is probably fairly cheap to use, being a local product. Third, the company has experience using it, rather than trying to balance the characteristics of two steels.

Of course, this is probably being done by the same people who make the Fällkniven blades out of two different steels. :rolleyes:

I question whether this technology means much in a gentleman's knife, which will rarely come under the sort of hard use that might require shock-absorbing sides and a hard, sharp center.

It is a nice little knife, though! :D
 
I got to play with one of those (and several others) at the Blade Show.

Very impressive !
 
Thanks Esav!

This is a pictures I promised:
http://www.geocities.com/nozh2002/hiro.html
So three layers are visible there.

This is what does confuse me - three layer blades are better in shock-absorbing and stain-resistanse. Helle make side layers from kitchenware steel for this reason - much more stain-resistant etc then core steel. But if it is same steel - what the point, from practical view?
Only spring effect I can imagime and better look of cource. Or they somehow manage to harden core layer more then side layers (different powder - some additions (flux?)).

Thanks, Vassili.
 
The real question is "how would you make the inner layer harder than the outer layers if they are the same alloy?" In order to fuse the layers together you have to reach a temperature that would undue any previous heat treatment of the inner layer. This means that you would have to go back an heat treat the whole blade as a unit. When you are done you have the outside layers the same hardness as the inside layers. If you had a different alloy for the outer layers you can have one heat treatment produce different hardness in the core layer. I don't see what benefit you get from three layers of the same alloy.
 
Vassili, I like your website, a trudno mnye chitat po-russki. :) You've got good links to a lot of interesting knife companies.

For the rest of the forumites, I recommend the Russkiye Palaty, Avtorskiye nozhi -- look about half-way down the list on the left between Busse and Boker. Some incredible damascus blades.
 
I get the impression that it's a core of VG10 and outer layer of 420, like in the Fallkniven Northern Lights series. If you take a look at the Hiro folder, it very much looks like the Fallkniven folder. Leads me to think that the same maker in Seki City is doing them, which leads me to believe that the laminated steel is the same one in the Fallkniven blades. The advertising copy may be confusing the issue because VG10 is the main steel they want to point out. Similarly, some scandinavian knives will say triple laminated stainless steel, or triple laminated carbon steel; and in both cases it's the core steel that they're talking about, with the outer layers being a stainless steel in both cases.

Anyway, that's my take on the issue.
 
Thanks again Esav, I have a English portion of my site too:
http://www.geocities.com/nozh2002/ingex_eng.html
Sorry for off topic.
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I can imagine that Sekicut use for Hiro same stock which they use for Fallkniven Northern Lights: 420J+VG10+420J. From other hand swedish folder has solid VG10 blade. I even checked Japanies site - I can recognize "VG10" there, but no any clues of "420J".
I heard that it is almost impossible to combine carbon steel with stainless and core is always stainless with stainless sides and vise wersa. At least my carbon Brusletto laminated blades are not stain-resistant at all.
Thanks, Vassili.
 
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