Self-defense mindset & knives?

D

Deb Mc

Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Messages
33
Hello everyone. I'm new to both this board and to the subject of knives as a self-defense weapon. Being a traditional female, this "personal" type of self-defense is a new, alien concept. I have done research in Bladeforum's archives, but the info is dated. I'm hoping that someone will be able to advise me as to how to proceed.

Bottom line: I need to prepare mentally for self-defense, both "impersonal" (guns) and "personal" combat such as knives or hand-to-hand.


A little history: I've used blades before - skinning knives for skinning/butchering deer; machetes for clearing land and hiking off-trail; axes for splitting firewood; and the typical kitchen knifeware for cooking/canning. I own a .357 Ruger for self-defense and target shooting. Ditto for the .22 magnum Marlin and .223 Ruger rifles.

I've seen livestock and deer die, seeing that "wild green fire" fade from their eyes. My concern is that I'm especially unprepared for human violence against myself and how I can correct such a mindset. (I strongly dislike confrontation - I'd *much* rather talk things out than have to fight, if that is possible. A typical woman's reaction, or so I've been told.)

While being attacked by the dog last week, I froze - I didn't know how to respond. It wasn't until the second attack that I mentally began to consider tactics. Until that incident, I thought myself mentally prepared. However, now I know that I am not.

Any advice or guidance you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Debbie
 
I think the only way you will overcome the "freeze" is to take some training classes and practice until it is automatic when you are faced with a situation.
 
Debbie: Y ou should read the book On Killing by Lt. Col. David Grossman. You will see that it is very hard to take a person's life regardless of circumstances. This is not a book on how to kill, but the affects killing has on people (soldiers). You have to train in knife fighting with a system that is proven. Something Filipino would be a good place to start. You have to train with realism against a resisting partner. Even if you have to gear up and go full contact. not all the time, but when you get confident, and want to test yourself. Remember to seek failure, and kill complacency. If it gets too easy, find a way to make it harder on yourself. Drill until it becomes second nature. Train hard, because if the "real deal" happens, you will not rise to the level of your expectations, but fall to the level of your training!!! Hope this helps.

Bill
 
Basically you are talking about your fight or flight instincts, alot of people freeze in between like the proverbial deer in the headlights.

"Impact" training is excellent, men training partners dressed in red protective suits yell at you and try to attact you. it is designed for women and they video tape each confrontation and discuss it with you.

My sister took the course and loved it.


I would definately recommend any kind of stress training which would give clarity as to whether to fight or flight in this months Black Belt magazine there is an article on Diana Lee Inosanto who speaks alot on female self defense with knives and such.

there is also a magazine out there called Women's Self Defensethe same publisher as BB. www.blackbeltmag.com


even for men it all boils down to training. there are no secret kill techniques or short cuts just plain old hard a$$ training.


good luck
 
Captn Ron,

Thank you - I am now considering that option, if a local trainer can be found.

While I am continuing my search for an instructor, are there any self-defense books you would recommend? I am specifically looking for personal experiences of how people changed their mindset.

Imo, *physical* training is very important, but if it conflicts with the mental mindset, a "freeze" may still occur.

Thanks again!
 
Bill & Chrisaloia,

Thank you! I'll look for the book and magazine both - they sound like a very good place to start.

Also, thank you for the info about "impact" training. There are so many different courses available, for very different personal needs. For a newbie like myself, it's rather confusing, to say the least.

Thanks again for the help!
 
deb, yes there are alot of courses but.....you are looking specifically for stress training. I think you are off to a great start alot of women think they might need self defense training so they take a kick aerobics course and think they are set to go.

you however have faced your inner weakness with honesty so your self defense needs are very specific to you.
 
Hi Debbie!
Welcome aboard! Self defense and tactics are a part of what I do for a living. The single very best thing that you can do is to find a real tactical trainer and take a few courses. I am NOT talking about the local gunshop commando "expert", but rather a world class trainer. Those that I can recommend without hestiation are John Farnam, Vicki Farnam (John's wife and an EXCELLENT trainer, particularity in areas unique to women), Louis Awerbach, Chuck Taylor, David Blinder, Gabe Suarez, Manny Kappelson, Jim Crews, Randy Cain, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite Ranch, or Ken Hackathorn. There are probably a few others, but these are the names that come to mind.
This is an area in which everyone will rush to give advice, most of which will be well intentioned. However, if you have never been trained by one of the above guys, you simply cannot imagine the wealth of knowledge, experience, wisdom and skill that you have missed out on.
After shooting throughout all of my childhood, and well into adulthood, I finally took a course. Ten minutes into it I realized that I knew absolutely nothing about managing a high threat environment. I mean absoultely nothing! And this was after having already fired hundreds of thousands of rounds, and reading tons of magazine articles (mostly BS) and books on the subject.
This is an area that is sorta like brain surgery - don't try to "do it yourself", go to a professional for the training that your life may someday depend upon.
Again, welcome aboard, and good shooting!
 
Mr. Bombastic - Thank you very much! That looks like it will be a great educational site and it has been bookmarked. There are some familiar faces there I see...


Brommeland - Hello and thanks! I'll certainly look those folks up and see which is program meshes best. Are they site-specific, or will a general Google name search be sufficient?

Also, thank you re: good shooting! Target shooting, either by pistol, rifle or bow has always been a family hobby. I was recently introduced to the .22 "floating barrel" target rifles (*way* too much fun!), but I'll need to save up awhile before I can afford it. Until then, more practice with the .357 and .223. Darn... :D


Chrisaloia - Thank you! I very much appreciate your help, especially with the training assessment. Confusion over what type of instruction was causing frustration and more than a little intimidation. With that out of the way, perhaps the self-defense education will proceed more smoothly.

Anyway, will I be a potential "Ninja Lady"? Probably not. But perhaps I will absorb enough training to turn the next snarling, wannabe wolf into moccasin liners...


Thanks again all!
 
Dear Debbie,
welcome in the real world! I like very much what you wrote!Today a lot of people believe that they just have to buy a gun to "be prepared" in a violent situation.
What you experienced with this dog is very normal,you've been shooting for a while but not be trained to manage a crisis situation.
If i was you I will start to find a range where you can shoot IDPA (defense pistol) to get some reflexes.When you then feel confident in this discipline can you take some classes in self defense.
The only problem is that there is a big "market" in this and a lot of people are more "comercial" than "professional".
Another thing,don't trie to be prepare to "take a life".You can't.Nobody and nothing can prepare you for that.Every combat situation is different,and everytime the reaction of such a situation depend of the individuals personality.I've seen tough guys cry after a violent confrontation,and other people who seemed "weak" took it pretty fine...
The best is training to get some reflex.Don't think about training to take a life,train and think "protect yourself".Get a good knowledge,some good reflexes and keep training.If one day a cronfrontation hapen,save your life and take it from here...
Olivier.

oliverplomion@hotmail.com
 
Debbie,

I don't know where you are in Ohio, but Tactical Defense Institute (TDI) is located in Adams county. They have some very good firearms training. In addition, over the winter they teach some short knife and contact classes in Cincinnatti. In their Level 1-3 handgun courses they go over a fair amount of mental preparation.

Ken Hackathorn was mentioned and is a top notch firearms trainer. He doesn't have his own school, but sometimes does classes at Fort Harmar Rifle and Pistol Club in Marietta.

I'd *much* rather talk things out than have to fight, if that is possible. A typical woman's reaction, or so I've been told.)
Click to expand...

Not true. Most people, men or women, would prefer to avoid (or deny this is happening to them) confrontation. Jeff Cooper started the idea of color coding levels of alertness, with white being totally unaware, yellow where you watch your surroundings, orange is when you perceive a possible threat, and red is where you are in a full blown confrontation. You should start by always trying to be in condition yellow. Starting in white, as you did with the dog, leaves you so far behind the curve that you will never catch up. Yellow is not paranoia, think of it as paying attention to what's ahead of you when you are driving.

I disagree with Oliver on two points. Start with training. IDPA is competition, which has its stresses, but it is not training. I've shot both IPSC and IDPA and they are fun and helpful in gunhandling, but neither is realistic. I also disagree on not planning to take a life. If you don't feel that there is any circumstance in which you might kill another human being, then don't carry lethal force. I'm not saying you can prepare for the emotional aftermath, because no one can, but if you can't drop the hammer, then learn some combative techniques and carry less lethal force.

My recommended reading list is pretty short. Absolutely read, "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. Try and find something by Cooper with his color code. Dave Spaulding has a book out called Defensive Living or something like that which I've heard good things about. Other than that, I'm not sure books will help too much. I have many, and have picked up a few little things to try at the range or add to training, but I'm not sure how helpful they would be at the beginner level.
 
Thanks for the reminder about TDI, John Benner is a VERY competent instructer as well.
Debbie, I'm with Geraldo - DO NOT engage in any form of shooting "games" (IPSC, IDPA, etc) prior to taking a tactical handgun course. It will only serve to further ingrain any bad shooting habits that you may have (and everyone does). Get the instruction first, then practice your butt off to instill proper muscle memory.
To find some of the instructors that I mentioned earlier, look for DTI (Defense Training International)- This is John & Vicki Farnam's school, Gunsite Ranch (Jeff Cooper's school), Yavapai Academy (Louis Awerbach's school)Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith's school - world renowned for their tactical carbine training)or PDT (Personal Defense Training) This is David Blinder's training program. All of them are world class.
 
Oliver - Hello and thank you! That's definitely good advice about taking the extra time to find a professional trainer rather than one who's just "out for the money". The extra money spent for a professional trainer is well worth it for the best training available. My safety is worth a few extra dollars being invested.


Geraldo - I live in Central Ohio, fairly near Columbus. Thank you for the two school listings, I'll add them to Brommeland's list of professional trainers I should consider.

Also, thank you for the advice regarding the books and the "Color coding" awareness levels - that may be quite helpful in better understanding how I can improve. (Improvement is a definite necessity on my part! I was most certainly in "the white", as my poor reaction time indicates.)

As for the IPSC and IDPA, I've not participated with either organization yet. My current targetshooting is either at the local indoor gunrange for the .357 and an outdoor range for freehand (no benchrest) .22 mag. and .223 rifles. I've been shooting the .22 mag. for some time, but have only just recently started shooting with the .357 and .223.


Brommeland - Understood and will do! Am I correct in assuming that these classes will concentrate on one subject only (not mixed disciplines)? I would prefer it to be a thorough instruction on one weapon (knives or guns, but not both), so that I have a better understanding of proper tactics. The less confusion there is, the better off I will be.

Also, thank you very much for posting the school names - that really streamlines the research, not to mention a good endorsement is worth its weight in gold.


Last item: I went back to the farm market today, armed with my new Gerber River Runner knife (drop point, yellow handle) in my back pocket. The small 3" blade is legal in Ohio and the yellow handle makes it look like a comb while in the back pocket.

There was no sign of the dog this time, fortunately, but I felt better knowing that this time I could defend myself, if need be. I also looked over the landscaping, trying to notice what places offered defensive possibilities. Now, if I can ingrain that mindset, that'll be a good start.

Thank you again, everyone, for your great advice and well wishes. It is very much appreciated!

Debbie
 
Hi Deb!
A good defensive trainer will structure their teaching into a single focused topic. For example, "Intro to tactical handgun", "Intermediate tactical handgun". "Basic Urban Rifle", etc.
However, while these classes focus on a single tactical topic, they will also cover related areas. For example: legal issues associated with the use of lethal force, how to deal with the media after such an event, how to conduct yourself during the resulting police investigation, how and when to hire an attorney, general "street smarts" and conflict avoidence, and most importantly of all - "mindset".
Now, a word to the wise: Knife fighting is a hideous thing indeed. More often than not, the way you tell the winner from the loser is by who dies first. By far the best way to deal with an opponent armed with a knife is to shoot him multiple times from a distance! Barring that, run like hell! Knives are BAD NEWS! (This advice comes from 6 years of martial arts training. Every single technique that I was trained to disarm a knife wielding opponent with failed miserably when used on a trained knife fighter. Don't even try it. Shoot him, or run. Those are your only realistic choices.)
Given where you are geographically, I'd suggest that you check out TDI down in Adams county. After you've done that, give Vicki Farnam a call. You'll never regret it. Good shooting!!!
 
Brommeland,

Thank you! The legal advice aspect would be a welcome part of the training. My concern was if the training would be a mixed discipline (multiple weapons). A single focused topic of training will be perfect! I'd like to become competent in one area before adding other aspects or a different discipline. I'm trying to minimize confusion while maximizing results.

Also, thank you for the "heads-up" regarding knife fighting. I have no desire to engage in such a fight - my main concern was about self-defense. Point well taken about trained knife fighters and distance. Consider your advisement as "Deb's Defense Rule #1".

Thank you again, all, for your assistance. It's very much appreciated!
 
Welcome to the forum! One book I can recommend is "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob, which, though somewhat out of date, is still in print. The use of knives is not recommended in the book, but Mas has more recently written on the use of knives in self-defense. In fact, Mas has long been studying the use of the blade, and in the book only recommended not using a knife because of the 1970's perception of the knife as a thug's weapon. Mas is an excellent instructor in his own right, and has co-authored articles with John Farnam. Mas is also very up-to-date on women's defensive issues, being married to a strong woman who goes about armed, and his daughter has instructed and written articles herself.
 
Ah, well, so things change, and I am out of date. Even so, my wife goes about armed, likes knives and guns, and likes the Ayoob book enough to consult it every so often, over six years after I gave it to her.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top