Self Defense or Macho?

anthony cheeseboro

anthony cheeseboro

Joined
Aug 8, 1999
Messages
5,094
In this forum I see many posts dealing with self defense. I think that self defense is a legitimate concern and that people who find themselves victims of criminal assault have a right to use whatever they can to protect themselves of course no one has the right to use lethal force if the threat is not lethal itself.) I wonder, however, about some posts, it seems that some forum members are more worried about knife fighting itself than self defense. I know that martial arts or self defense instructors say that one must practice to be ready when an emergency strikes, but I sense a certain macho urge to prove oneself in deadly conflict. This concers me at two levels. First, we knife lovers always say that our knives are tools not weapons. Any person who did not like knives could find plenty on this website that would make us look like hypocrites. Second, I fear that some of us may find ourselves in an altercation that could have been solved without deadly force but we will react with needless violence because we are too gung ho on knife training. These are my ideas. i'm not trying to step on any toes but I did want to voice my concerns.
 
Anthony, well said. I believe it goes deeper than just knife fighting of self defense. It goes right to our core beliefs on knives. I tried to raise this subject in a recent thread, "Are people more afraid of a Gun or a Knife?" I was a little discouraged, that so many members, missed the point. It's not any wonder why the Genral Public, takes a negative view of knives. We, may be our own worst enemy.
 
Anthony,

Good concerns. I think that you'll find that the people who are sounding most eager to get "into it" are those who have not been into anything more than writing about their fantasies on their computers while munching on a bag of potato chips. They have no idea of the feeling of horror and nightmares that accompany living through a violent, deadly encounter.

In a public forum, and this is a public forum, anyone can get on and post. That means there are all types here -- maybe even anti-knife types trying to discredit the knife knuts of the world...
wink.gif
.

Sane, mature people who have been in a deadly confrontation are not the ones going around spouting off about it. It is much too horrifying, and usually very, very difficult to even bring up in the first place.

Peace,

Brian.
 
I am licensed to carry concealed weapons in my state.You will always find me with a pistol and tactical folder.This has been so for about 3 years.The fact that I have trained and prepared for any eventuality seems to make me less "macho" acting than before.I don`t worry if I will look like a chicken if I have to back down.It is because I know The confrontation can be won, at a very high cost.This leaves me with nothing to prove.
I beleive in Massad Ayoob`s concept of having a higher standard for those of us who are well armed.I don`t shoot the bird in traffic as much or do other confrontational
things.Things never start escalating,thus the risk of violence is reduced in those type of situations ,which is most of the potential violent conflict we are likely to face.
If the violence is a direct assault such as armed robbery or kidnapping,then being ready to stop the attack with force isn`t a macho thing,it is a survival thing.It doesn`t matter if Karate,Guns or Knives are used.The principles are the same.
My$.02
David

AKTI#150
 
Well said, Mr. Cheeseboro.

(Psst! Wanna buy a Covert Spec Ops SEAL Recon Force Delta Bravo N.U.K.E. Tactical Concealed neck knife (dark sunglasses and three-day beard optional)? What? No!! It's a tool, not a weapon. A weapon is something like a barlow or trapper.)

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Bill

Unfortunate but Increasingly Necessary Disclaimer:

While this post likely contains incorrect information, fuzzy logic, poor grammar and misspelled words, what it does not contain is intentional malevolence toward anyone.




[This message has been edited by Uncle Bill (edited 03 December 1999).]
 
Here, here Mr. Cheeseboro.
Mr. Jones has valid points as well. I believe alot of folks fall into the "Walter Mitty" catagory. Sort of living out a fantasy by owning the latest 'Taktikal Gut Splitter" They'd be the most likely to talk about it and the last one to Actually do something (or heaven forbid, do something and make matters worse).
. Then again, one could say that owning a Bowie is "owning a piece of history" ...
What I am sure of, is that we as knife knuts have to watch our collective "P's & Q's" The word "Tactical" in the blade world will quickly become the word "Assault" in the rifle world. OK not my best sentence, but you get the idea, right?

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Can it core a apple?
 
I agree it seems like a lot of people are too ready to go for a knife. But thats understandable when you consider society today.Crime can happen anywhere and nobody wants to be the victim. And all to often criminals go unpunished for they've done.I think its a comfort to a lot of people to have a knife that can be used for self defense and have the skill and know how to use it. I also think they hope they won't ever have a reason to use it. And I doubt very many people would use it without a reason.
My defense plan is to throw my multipliar at them and run like hell.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Hiya Mr. Cheeseboro!

Maybe I don't read as many posts as you do, but I really don't see too many posts by folks seeming to "want" to use any weapon in a violent manner.
I'm sure that there's many people who pick up a blade and somewhere in their minds they think about its use as a weapon (I'm included) but for the most part, the folks here seem to be somewhat sane (myself EXcluded) and if there's questions about defensive/offensive capabilities of knives to be discussed, it's in a mostly academic manner.
I have well over 100 knives and over 40 firearms, all of which I feel I'm capable of using to inflict harm. But I never have, nor do I wish to do so. I don't hunt, fish or even squish bugs. I'm pretty much capable of shooting what I'm able to see however. But when I look down my sights or through my scope, I don't pretend I'm shooting at "the enemy". Same with knives... whittling, clicing ropes, boxes, etc., that's all I'm doing.
If I'm in a sticky situation, with spooky looking people around, I'm fully aware of the knife in my pocket, and know what to do should the need arise.
That's just being prepared, though.

Anyways, I'm in a chatty mood at the moment, so I figured I'd spew some thoughts on the subject.

Hope I got your point.
smile.gif


VG

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Vampire Gerbil: Nosferatus Rodentus Moderatus; similar to a domestic gerbil, except for the odd accent and little black cape.


 
I like Matt's idea. I often fear that if I got in a situation where a chose to draw my knife in order to protect myself, the asailant would take it from me and stab my with my own knife. Or worse yet, it I pulled out my knife in self-defense, the assailant might pull out a gun in response.

I'd rather not risk getting hurt. I'll just run.

Mitch
 
To Vampire Gerbil and Others:
I don't believe that alot of us "want" to use a knife defensively although there are few who strike me as chomping at the bit. To me, the problem is that in discussing self defense, we often speak about the knife or deadly force as the first option instead of the last. Davidb415 was quite wise when he quoted Masaad Ayoob in saying that an armed person should hold him or herself to a higher standard of behavior. Knife and gun enthusiasts always say that a weapon or knife is neither good or evil, it is the user that makes the difference. I think we should also add that it is important for a knife owner to always use an edged tool responsibly whether in apeaceful situation or a confrontation because irresponsible use of knives reflects negatively on all of us.
 
This probably means I'm a macho dork, but not all of us say our knives are tools and not weapons. A weapon is just a tool used to do harm to someone. I will only use mine to defend against a threat but let's not pretend.
I carry one knife that is a tool/weapon and one which is a dedicated weapon. I don't hesitate to tell people that nor do I think anyone should. If you believe you have the right and a reason to carry a weapon, you're not doing yourself any favors by pretending it's there for whittling.

YMMV, as this is MHO.

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"It is not criminals who enter schools and shoot children . . ."
--Ann Pearston, British gun control apologist and Moron
 
I enjoy a good knife fight when the blades are all blunt and, after it's over, we can sit around an laugh about who make what mistakes. But, the idea of a real one is quite frightening. The more you train with a knife and come to appreciate what it is capable of doing, the more frightening it becomes.

The idea of a house fire is also frightening. But, that does not stop me from having a fire extinguisher and the resolve to use it if necessary and if the situation permits. On the other hand, I'm not going to pour gas on the sofa and toss a match just to get a chance to play with my niffty fire extinguisher. No, I take every precaution that I can to prevent a house fire.

I've never regretted preparing for an emergency that never happened. I have, a few times, found myself in the midst of a foreseeable emergency I regretted not preparing for.

The most important first step in self defense is not to get into a situation in the first place. Unfortunately, it's not always possible to predict or avoid all potentially violent situations. If step one should ever fail, you will not regret being prepared to proceed to step two.

I look upon carrying a weapon or being prepared to defend yourself manually like carrying a spare tire in your car. I don't enjoy pulling off the side of the road on a cold, rainy day to muck around in the mud wearing my dress shoes and a dry-clean only suit to change a tire. I hope it never happens. I'm not going to go out and deliberately slash my tires to make it happen. I take every reasonable precaution to make sure it doesn't happen (replace tires well before they're worn to risk, don't drive over things that might puncture a tire, check for proper inflation regularly, etc.). But, despite all of that, it did happen to me once (though it wasn't raining, thankfully) and I was glad that I had the spare with me and that I'd taken the time ahead of time to try out my jack and etc. and prepare.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
 
I have had someone pull a knife on me on several occasions. Fortunately, on each occasion, I had a handgun, distance, sobriety, body armor, impact weapons and a police radio on my side and the situation was resolved without fatal injury. Other than that, Gollnick expressed my opinion on the topic better than I ever could have.
 
Knife-Fighting for fun using blunt training blades is enjoyable and, given the proper mindset, creates more respect for the knife and the dire consequences one could suffer if a self-defense situation arose.Those who play with knives purely to be more macho are at the immature level of thinking with regards to knives and confrontational situations in general.They are the types that should be educated before they find out the hard way.Like Gollnick said, preparing for an emergency is a good thing, like having a spare tire.I agree!As for myself, I love knife training not only for preparedness but also for getting in touch with a natural behavior of the human being which is called (Pseudoaggression)

The Following is from Dr.Erich Fromms' book entitled "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness"

[Pseudoagression: "By Pseudoagression I refer to those aggressive acts which may cause harm, but are not intended to do so".]

*According to Fromm, there are sub-levels of Pseudoaggression, one of which is "Playful Aggression."I leave you with Dr.Fromms' explanation.

"Playful Aggression has as its aim the exercise of skill.It does not aim at destruction or harm, and it is not motivated by hate.While fencing, sword-fighting, and archery developed from the need to kill an enemy in defense or attack, their original function has been almost completely lost and they have become an art."
*There is more to this commentary but I have been long winded enough
smile.gif

 
Gollnick has it nailed.

Prudent preparation requires training both of the physical and the mind set.

To ignore this and carry unprepared is the greater danger.

I have never seen a post on this forum where by an individual is discussing how to find a fight. Nonsense to suggest it. The discussions of self defense always includes

“… when all efforts of avoiding confrontation fail … and the fight finds you … then …”

There is great variation of opinion and experience … why should it not be discussed?


The problem in this thread may be more along the lines of some individuals think they know what others are thinking … in spite of what they really say.
 
I want to stress that I have never spoken against self defense or even against deadly force if one is in a situation where that is a legitimate response. I am peaceful but I am not a pacifist. I just think while we talk about knives or self defense technique, it is important to remember that a single 5 or 10 second altercation has the potential to alter your life and the lives of others irrevocably. We should never loose sight of this when we ponder self defense.
 
Weapons and their applications, as well as the discussion of self-defense scenarios, are probably my primary hobby (and one hobby amidst many). Yet the last thing I'd want to do would be to get into a fight with anyone. I've said in other posts that I've never seen any particular dishonor in running away before a fight can begin, provided I didn't start it. Avoidance, whenever possible, is always the best policy. But it never hurts to be as prepared as humanly possible for whatever vile business life throws at you.

Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.



[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 04 December 1999).]
 
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