Senbenza or Van Gogh?

A

Architect

Gold Member
Joined
May 31, 2001
Messages
2,214
I am keeping this on the CRK forum because I don't want to start general griping about the Sebenza, as often happens.

I spoke with Bridget this morning and CRK has decided that they cannot put a polished finish on the hollow grind of my Small Tanto Sebenza (NICA Edition) because NICA ordered them with a tumbled finish and they do not want to (can't?) violate the design by polishing the blade.

Sheesh, it is pocket knife or a Van Gogh? :rolleyes: It's not like NICA invented the "tumbled" finish. NICA reaped their profit, what could they possibly care?

Should I write the Senator's in Idaho to get this nonsense reversed?

I am whining too much?

Saddened in San Francisco, or , Whose Stinking Money is it Anyway?
 
I agree with CRK...NICA wanted it that way and they are respecting the "contract."
If you want to polish it, because you want "your" knife that way, then buy a dremel and some jeweler's rouge. I've done that on my small sebbie to get a mirror polish.
 
I find it hard not to appreciate the position of the CRK folks and even harder not to respect their integrity in honoring a contract.
 
I kind of agree with Architect. They where initially produced to certain specifications for NICA. But if it's your knife, and you want it changed, I don't see the problem.

But you can probably do an acceptable job yourself, as has been mentioned.
 
If Chris gave his word it is my experience that that is how it will be- He does not do something to an exclusive just because no one is looking! Frustrating- yes, but very high in integrity. I have wanted some things to such as a Green beret without serrations- but that ain't gonna happen unless all the parties involved would decide to do so... not that it can't change but it does take the original party to request the change in my experience.
 
So in other words, the customer is NOT always right. (sorry for stealing Best Buy's motto)
I agree with Architect. It is HIS knife, NOT NICAs. He's the one who has to look at it, do you think the NICA police would come after him if it changed? Sounds like he wants to make a knife HIS that is owned by 400 other people. What would you do if you bought say a limited edition Eddie Bower(sp?) vehicle and the seller said you can't change it at all because that isn't how it came. I'd go to a different dealer.

later,

OilMan
 
Now I may be totally wrong but I believe that NICA was the customer and that is how they wanted the knife and it was built to an agreed spec by CRK. The end user may do whatever he/she wishes but it IS ok for the manufacturer to choose NOT to modify it.
 
Ya but, who OWNS it? Possession is nine tenths of the law. :)

And nobody said it wasn't their (Reeves) right not to change it, it just seems odd that a customer(end user) super friendly company wouldn't want to do something that they do regularly on/for other models.
 
HELLO! Architect & Oilman! CRK didn't say "you" can't "own" a NICA tanto with a polished blade, he just said he (CRK) wouldn't polish it! ...and when you ask a business to violate their principles, then "NO" the customer is not always right!

Honda won't install a new exhaust system from a CBR900RR on my 919 (CB900F4) which uses the same engine. It invalidates their warranty and messes up the fuel injection mapping. ...but I can buy one and do it myself.

If it's important to you, go get it done! Someone will do it, or you can, but quite whinning. Sounds just like my kids (Daddy, I want a puppy -- NO!, Daddy, I want to write on the walls with markers -- NO!, Daddy, Please, Please, Please, Pleassseeeee! -- NO!
 
Thanks for the input all, it is obviously not a big deal, as I hoped to communicate through my original post, but the principal involved is important to me.

As a design professional, I am very sensitive to "authorship" issues and design integrity.

On the other hand, buildings are about nothing if they are not about change. Architects are frequently hired to revised their previous deisgns - make them bigger, improve them, whatever. Often (very often) the original architect is not hired, but a new one is hired in their stead to make these design changes. Unless the building is recongized for some exceptional design merit or for some particularly important historic reasons, these changes usually happen without a second thought.

What makes the "NICA" design distinctive? The blade shape (not found on other Sebenzas) and the scale design. The other elements found on this design are typical of any Sebenza (beadblast scale finish, pivot design, clip design, thumbstud design, etc.).

If we are to accept the premise that these folding knives are tools, then as long as the alteration does not violate the basic function, what's the difference?

If one takes the position that this design is "artwork", and is therefore inviolate, well, I think there is a bit of lost perspective here - hence, the Van Gogh reference.

bruce said:
...If it's important to you, go get it done!
Click to expand...

Not that simple. The thumblug has to be removed and replaced to use the correct size wheel to polish the hollow grind. Who else is going to do this besides CRK? Also, I prefer (and am willing to spend the money) to have CRK do all alterations and cleanings to their folders - they are good at it. That's why I get them in the first place.

bruce said:
...and when you ask a business to violate their principles, then "NO" the customer is not always right!
Click to expand...

See above, this minor finish change is hardly the same as asking them to add something like offensive images (use your imagination) to the graphic areas of the decorated scale. "Violate" is a pretty over-the-top interpretation of my innocent request in this case.

chairman moe said:
If you want to polish it, because you want "your" knife that way, then buy a dremel and some jeweler's rouge. I've done that on my small sebbie to get a mirror polish.
Click to expand...

I barely have the time (at home) to sharpen my knives let alone take on a polishing project with my dremel (which I have). If it wasn't so darn noisy, I am sure I could carve out the time here at work!

Again, this is trivial in the larger scope of things.
 
If you can find the time....It took me 30 minutes to polish my entire blade, 1.5 hr to polish my handle and torch it different colors.....wasn't really a big deal. I just used the buffing wheel and did not bother removing the thumbstud, I actually polished that (took off the blue that was really worn) and the rear spacer. I guess I just like to tinker...I even sharpen mine with a ceramic stick. My sebbies are used at work and I can't stand a dull knife or one that isn't "customized" a little.
 
Of course the other issue is, that if you polish the blade, I would imagine it invalidated the warranty as well.
 
I could understand if Chris Reeve felt the knife might be deceptively resold as a prototype or something, but what he would really be doing is an aftermarket modification, which almost always reduces the knife's value. Personally, I just don't see the ethical dilemna. :confused:
 
I'm surprised they decided not to do a polished finish on a customer's own NICA. After all, it isn't like an ugly or drastic modifcation.

I have one, and they were happy to add an extra thumbstud for me, and in a different colour to the standard NICA.

In that sense, I don't see the difference ethically between a polished finish and adding double thumblugs of a different colour to NICA's spec.
 
Now the situation is that much wierder because it sounds like they WILL change a NICA tanto but for some reason won't for Architect. Doesn't make sense.
And before all the people who hate others for having an opinion that doesn't match their blind faith I will say that I own plenty of Sebbies and 4 of the NICAs in particular. Yes, CR customer service is excellent but that just baffles me more as to why this small change is a problem.

later,

OilMan
 
I wanted to buy a knife from them this week, a small classic with silver thumblugs, clip removed and insert installed.This is a very hard knife to come across.I spoke to Neil at True North Knives who has one but when the clip was removed it was marked as usual.He would not send it back to CRK to have them polish the marks out and 'passed' on the sale.I asked Bridget if she would make the knife and post it to the UK, bearing in mind she was willing to do this recently with a reverse stars and stripes, but this time she told me to use the UK importer.Maybe she was having a bad week (we all do!) but between True North and CRK I really feel like collecting Willam Henry from now on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grumpy:
 
I hardly see how WHK is relevant compared to CRK not wanting to polish a NICA. Buy more WHK, it obviously makes you feel better.

I don't see how this rectifies CRK not willing to polish a NICA blade? Anyway, I can't speak for Bridgete at CRk or for CRK for that matter, if you (sorry I SPEAK FOR MYSELF!) want a knife the way you want it, then find a maker willilng to make the "knife" you want. Stop calling foul to knives that are "marked" or dealers that are not willing to find a knife that is less than perfect.

Come on....this is ridiculous. Your not happy...., either fix it....or find something "perfect."

rant off.............
 
Sorry Chaiman Moe and Garage Boy, I will try and explain again.I saw a knife on True North Knives (a small classic with double silver thumblugs), and explained that I wanted to carry it clipless in a pouch.This was agreed and a insert was to be fitted but when the clip was removed it had the usual marks on the handle where the clip had rubbed.There is no point in the knife being sent to me in the UK and then me sending it back to the US to have the handle refurbished so I asked if it could be sent to CRK prior to it being sent to me and I would also pay for the refurbish aswell as the insert and the pouch.I am sure that both of you would like a 'perfect' knife if you are spending over $400 on it.This sale was 'passed' by True North as it would seem it was too much bother.I then contacted CRK to see if they could make the same knife from scratch, ie a small classic with and insert and double silver thumblugs.I don't agree that this is a 'custom knife' but a variation on the usual.Previously I was able to buy direct from CRK but this time I was told to contact the UK importer (who incidently is a great guy but the price rockets).I have searched in vain for the same knife elsewhere on the internet but it does not seem to be available anywhere!.So Chairman Moe, you will forgive me in agreeing with Architect when I say that it is a knife not a priceless painting so to coin your phrase 'rant off'.............
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top