Serial Numbers on knives

[Mark Knapp]

First of all, hi to everyone, I have stepped in to lookaround in here from time to time but had not taken time to register before.

In a recent posting where Jim cooper ( nice guy, ainte he) posted some images of some knives I built, http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7581264#post7581264

Thank you for the very nice words Kevin. The question of date stamps on the knives came up. While they do suggest when the knives were completed, the stamps are more of a serial number to identify a particular knife. The same serial number is reflected on the Certificate of Authenticity that accompanies each knife. Without the serial number the certificate would have to say something like " the drop point hunter with blue ivory handle was made for..."
So I would like to talk about the pros and cons of serial numbers. Why people like them and why they don't.

Thanks Mark

 

[DrivebyTrucker]

I have a Kiku Matsuda Osoraku Tsukuri Style Fighter that is custom and one of my favorite knives. I bought it off the exchange but it didn't come with a certificate (seller threw that stuff away) I really like this knife but all it has to identify itself is a internet thread i saved on my comp and a serial number (which has no certificate). So to a non knife lover the serial number may make it look like a production piece. Oh well. Busse knives don't come with certificates. They don't serial their combat grade knives either (with coating). But they do number their LE knives.
I'm not sure really how I feel about serial numbers I'm still deciding.

 

[betzner]

Anyone who talks down your knife because of a maker's mark or serial number probably had no intention of buying it anyway, for some other reason. Plenty of makers number knives and they still sell.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Thank you for the very nice words Kevin. The question of date stamps on the knives came up. While they do suggest when the knives were completed, the stamps are more of a serial number to identify a particular knife. The same serial number is reflected on the Certificate of Authenticity that accompanies each knife. Without the serial number the certificate would have to say something like " the drop point hunter with blue ivory handle was made for..."
So I would like to talk about the pros and cons of serial numbers. Why people like them and why they don't.

Thanks Mark

Hi Mark.
I prefer knives to be identified by number when the numbers mean something as your's do. Especially when the number specifies the date a particular knife is made. I also prefer for a maker's mark and serial number (when included) to be more subtle rather than noticed at first glance. I like your maker's mark design however as it is a little large I feel your serial # may present a more balanced look if placed on the other side. Just my opinion of course.

I have always wondered why the Loveless Shop scratches those serial #s on some of their knives when those "in the know" will tell you they mean nothing.

 

[martinr]

Here is what one knifemaker (Phil Boguszewski) had to say about serial numbers in an email responding to a question I had.
" That is the 4th Cobra of that size with the double edge blade grind. When I make what I think is a significant change in a knife, I start at Prototype and go up the numbers. Everyone has their own system. One knifemaker was being hassled by an ex-wife, so he numbered every knife regardless of pattern consecutively. Then her lawyer could keep track of his income & not overestimate."

I personally like serial #1

 

[SharpByCoop]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for joining and welcome! I appreciate the kudo's. Back at YOU!

Serial numbers: I think it's a personal aspect, but I admire a maker who has a system of accounting. The late Bob Ogg numbered each one of his knives in sequential order, and then had a handwritten record of the knife's build. You can still find out a date of origin of you contacted his son in law, Max Burnett. His work ranged in the thousands!

I agree with Kevin in his preference for the serial number to be on the 'backside' of the knife. One of the classiest marks in the industry is South African maker Rob Brown. Here is how he numbers his knives:

I am guessing this is sequential, because I shot another knife from this dealer, and it was six numbers away.

No other opinions, but offering what others have done.

That said, last New Years, I decided to name all my current Portfolio image files with the maker's name and date. Ex: Knapp_091127A.jpg This would be shot on 11/27/09 and it would be a multiple of a few shots with an alpha suffix. For me, this will allow me to chronicle a maker's work in time sorting.

We like organization and recordkeeping. :thumbup:

Coop

 

[bbarnettAUS]

Gday Mark,
Glad to see you on here & to see some of your knives posted by Coop:thumbup:.
Re the serial number, IMHO it spoils your knives. If you have to use one then I believe it really should be on the other side.

That Rob Brown piece is pretty cool.

Cheers Bruce

 

[Mark Knapp]

It probably can not be disputed that a serial number (and the certificate) make for a package that holds value better, or appreciates more than a knife without one (check with the folks at Antiques Road Show on that). I find that one of the things that really helps me seal the deal on a knife sale is when I mention the serial number and Certificate of Authenticity. I have been asked to add numbers to knives and provide certificates for knives that were sold before I started doing that. That having been said, I was asked by one guy, a week after the deal had been made and the deposit collected, that I not put my mark or number on a matched set for he and his son. I told him that I didn't want to leave my mark off and risked the sale. For him I will make the mark more subtle and from now on move the numbers to the off-side and make them less obtrusive. Thanks for all the in-put. Still open for more.

Mark

 

[stephanfowler]

It probably can not be disputed that a serial number (and the certificate) make for a package that holds value better, or appreciates more than a knife without one (check with the folks at Antiques Road Show on that). I find that one of the things that really helps me seal the deal on a knife sale is when I mention the serial number and Certificate of Authenticity. I have been asked to add numbers to knives and provide certificates for knives that were sold before I started doing that. That having been said, I was asked by one guy, a week after the deal had been made and the deposit collected, that I not put my mark or number on a matched set for he and his son. I told him that I didn't want to leave my mark off and risked the sale. For him I will make the mark more subtle and from now on move the numbers to the off-side and make them less obtrusive. Thanks for all the in-put. Still open for more.

Mark

I've never had someone ask for an unmarked blade, that would send up huge warning flags and possibly cause me to NOT deal with a customer

Stephan

 

[irbailey]

I have always wondered why the Loveless Shop scratches those serial #s on some of their knives when those "in the know" will tell you they mean nothing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Loveless numbers were to identify which blade goes with which guard as they are fitted before the blade goes to heat treat.
Sorry to go off topic there...

Ian

 

[Jagged]

I'm not in the same league as you guys; but I like serial numbers that aren't so obvious and that allow you to easily determine info for all that maker's knives once you know the code (for example Year, model #, # in sequence as in YYYY MMM SSS or 2009 010 198). FWIW: I also think it would be nice to have the type of steel coded somehow into it too so you don't need a certificate or some sheet. Also, FWIW... I had never heard of him; but I really like Rob Brown knife.

 

[Hmathews]

Leaving a maker's mark off is just not something I would consider at all. As far as I know we have never had anyone even mention serial numbers on knives. We mark the steel type on the off side from the maker's mark and at one time put the year the knife was made just above it, but we dropped the year as it was too much aggravation. We have marked the first knife of a new model as such a time or two, but we have stayed away from serial numbers.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I have always wondered why the Loveless Shop scratches those serial #s on some of their knives when those "in the know" will tell you they mean nothing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Loveless numbers were to identify which blade goes with which guard as they are fitted before the blade goes to heat treat.
Sorry to go off topic there...

Ian

Hi Ian, "mean nothing" as in no worthwhile purpose (such as date made and/or who made by etc.) to warrant roughly scratching numbers in a highly visible area of a very valuable knife. Shop numbers as you describe are usually scribed into a less visible or even concealed areas such as the tang.

Asking a maker not to put his/her mark on a knife seems like an odd request to me as well. Not sure many makers would take that well.

Have heard of collectors asking makers not to put their "JS" mark on a knife on several occasions.