SERIOUS Question about steel

Unbreakable · Mar 2, 2003

Now I'm not trying to start an arugment but can anyone give me breakdown of pros and cons for BG-42 Vs. S30V.

Why has companies like Strider Knives and Chris Reeves Knives gone to making their high end folders out of S30V rather than BG-42.

Any help here would be appreciated. I have a choice to make between two folders one is S30V and the other BG-42 and I want to find out which is the best as far as strength, edge holding, rust resistance, ease of care, ease of sharpening, longevity.

shmoopiebear · Mar 2, 2003

If you do a search on S30V you'll find threads about it chipping because of some initial heat treating issues. The only thing I heard about BG42 is that it is harder to sharpen than S30V and ATS34, because it is marble steel. S30V is supposed to be harder than ATS34 and softer than BG42 from what I could deduce. Apparently, the differences are very minute. Are you thoroughly confused yet? I was. So I bought knives with all three steels. I have yet to sharpen them or really use them hard. It is hard to tell if there is a difference between any of them. I wish you luck in your search and look forward to the results of your inquiry.

Trace Rinaldi · Mar 3, 2003

CPM S30V has double the impact resistance of ATS, or BG.. Basically your getting a stainless steel on par with A2 Tool steel as far as durability..
The stuff is great, but it cant be as finely finished as ATS or BG, but on a using knife who really cares?

Unbreakable · Mar 3, 2003

When you say finely finished you mean as far as appearance? In other words S30V can't be beautifully mirror polsihed? So on a blade that is to be bead blasted (Or Tiger Striped as Strider has made famous) it is the right tool for the job? Cause I could care less about a knifes ability to be made pretty. That being said for performance S30V is a better choice than BG-42?

Cliff Stamp · Mar 3, 2003

Trace Rinaldi :

CPM S30V has double the impact resistance of ATS, or BG.

The claims of higher impact toughness for CPM-S30V are comparing it in terms of charpy values which induce cracks with the grain and thus on knives travel parallel to the edge from choil to tip (how many knives have you seen break like this). Just like when splitting wood as compared to chopping through it, these "splitting" values are very low in general compared to fractures going against the grain, which is of course how knives actually break.

The CPM steels are indeed tougher in regard to this "splitting", however in general you don't shape parts so that they load in that manner for obvious reasons, which is why the other charpy values are usually quoted as they are the ones that matter the most. If you wanted to exploit this splitting aspect of toughness you would align the grain so it ran from spine to edge - however few people make heavy use knives like that for a very obvious reason.

However if you did, and you compared a S30V knife aligned that way with one made from 440C with similar grain alignment, the S30V one would indeed be tougher. However a 440C blade with grain from tip to choil would be almost three times as tough as a S30V one with spine to edge grain, and if you ground both with tip to choil alignment (as they all are) the toughness is the same for both.

-Cliff

tom mayo · Mar 3, 2003

All I know is what I read in Blade Magazine about Rob Simonichs tests. S30V totally kicked butt in the toughness area, holds an edge as good as a hand forged blade by one of the best forgers alive, and IMHO is the best steel on the planet at this time.

BG42 is a great steel, I think S30V is better, and Trace, you just need to try a little harder on that finish. Come over to my shop and I will show you how!!

Unbreakable · Mar 3, 2003

Cliff you have WAY too much time on your hands. But we here seriously appreiciate your studies in the steel world. I've read many of your posts (especially when you were torture testing the busse knives) and have come to value your opinion. I guess I should say findings rather than opinion since you back it up with the hundreds of (now dead) knives that have the misfortune of falling into your grasp. Thank you very much.

Mr. Mayo thank you for putting cliffs comments into words this young enthusiast can understand. I have decided to go with the S30V blade as 100 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. It's scary to spend a lot of money on a blade whose performance is relatively undocumented due in part to new materials. But I've heard a lot of good things about this steel and the only negative things (negative being a relative term) is this strange wire edge characteristic with the smalls dings in the edge. But being that I have become a good sharpener in my limited experience (good meaning all my knives shave and condtinue to do so even after mild to heavy use only requiring minor touch ups from time to time) I don't see this as being a huge obstacle. thank you all who replied for helping me with my next blade choice.

tom mayo · Mar 3, 2003

how much the edge dents (deforms) is all a matter of grind angles and edge finishing (polishing etc). The thinner the edge grind, the more fragile the edge. The first knife I ever made out of S30V was ground so thin I was sure it would break, done so at the insistance of Jerry Hossom. It has now held up beautifully for well over a year with not a problem whatsoever!! The stuff really is a quantum leap forward by Crucible and has left most of the other steels that we used to use in the dust!
For edge holding ability I still prefer 420V-but for a combination of toughness and edge holding S30V is the ticket, that is why I INSISTED that BUCK use it on the Buck Mayo TNT.

Trace Rinaldi · Mar 3, 2003

Might just be doing that Tom

I dont think I will fit in your shop though

I think S30V is a much better choice than ATS and BG.. I used to use both, and dont anymore..

Like Rob says.. ATS is just a lame steel..HAHA..

Scott Dog · Mar 4, 2003

Also I believe that S30V is the first Crucible steel that was designed specifically for the knife industry. BG-42 is designed for ball bearings. I personally can't tell the difference between the steels because I'm not a hard knife user but I value the opinions of Reeve, Mayo, Hossom, Stamp and Rinaldi. I have a small Sebenza with a S30V blade and it takes and hold a wicked edge.

The Tourist · Mar 4, 2003

When I had the chance to buy knives made of S30V, I jumped at the chance. But I did not throw away all of my knives made of 154-CM, which continues to be one of my favorite steels.

I find my wife's CPM-440V knife a bit brittle, and I watch for concoidal fracture when I sharpen that knife. However, it cuts for her, and she likes it. She also has found a Chinese stainless three inch clip point that is her general utility knife. Sure, I sharpen it more, but it works.

To be fair, I am not using my knives in a survival mode. I carry them as simple jackknives to open the mail, cut open cardboard boxes and make routine repairs. Having a nice strong knife is just icing on the cake.

When I bought my Strider AR, it was just at the time when their BG-42 knives were being phased out and their S30V knives were being delivered. Some distributors had both.

I was one of the clients who DID NOT care which steel was delivered. Both were excellent knives.

Megalobyte · Mar 4, 2003

Originally posted by tom mayo

...and Trace, you just need to try a little harder on that finish. Come over to my shop and I will show you how!!

[Ker-THUNK!!! ]

Was that just the sound of a gauntlet being thrown down???