serious question regarding durability of khukris

[jamaljahda]

Hello, let me start by saying I do understand the concept of using the proper tool for the job. If you need an axe get an axe. However looking at the amount of steel in a khukri and given the weight I wondered why there is this general use and field use classification. Even the lightest khukris such as the kobra are heavier than many other large blades that handle splitting wood, quartering game, primitive shelter building, and self defense. Just out of my users that I have personally and have done all with the exception of SD (unless you count killing a snake that came into camp)are the esee junglas 10", becker bk9 9", cold steel kukri machete 13" and a condor el salvador machete 14". None of these blades are as thick as a khukri and have handled all chores in stride. As a matter of fact the only big blade that I have that does not perform well at all of those task happens to be a thick .25 10" blade the Ontario sp8 machete. So why would one fear doing chopping with say a chitlange, siru or some other non field use khukri. Not trying to start anything just a question that I have been really thinking about for a while.

 

[GregS]

I have always been puzzled by this as well...

 

[HARPERSGRACE]

Well the main reason there are those two classes is to protect HI from people who don't have the common sence to use the right tool for the right job. Pretty much any HI kurkri will out preform almost any knife and most hatchets....but there are some people who like to take things to a extreme and then cry foul and expect Ms. Yangdu to pay for their stupidity. Add to that the fact that there is a learning curve to using a kurkri that most people seem to ignore.
If you do a search for warranty info you'll find it coverd in more than a couple of threads

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I wouldn't feel bad about using any of them for those tasks, the lighter ones just aren't warrantied for heavy use.

I think the warranty reason is that some people have just been stupid and thought hacking cement, prying apart large logs with the thinnest model they can find, prying doors off hinges and such, or dishonest -- they buy a blade off of eBay, then intentionally break it to get a new one.

Much as I love my Chiruwa Ang Khola, I bought a sirupate and tamang knife to do a lot of brush clearing, and when it comes down to it, if you're going to keep to wrist sized wood or smaller, a sirupate or tamang is a good choice.

It's up to Auntie on how strict she'll be about the warranty, but she usually gives the benefit of the doubt unless it's obvious that you've intentionally done something stupid or tried to break it on purpose. Like you said, even a "very light" HI blade like a Tamang or one of the swords, is more of a bruiser than most "heavy chopping" knives.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

The others have summed it up quite nicely. Thank ya guys

I have a 20.5" 20.5oz Kobra that I use as a machete. I have for years and years. It's probably in my top 5 khuks. I absolutely adore this whistling fast blade.

That said, if I bend it or rattle it loose from the handle, it's on me. I wouldn't DARE send it back to Yangdu. In short, the "light use" khuks will probably outlast you and your grandkids if they are used with a little common sense. HI was simply forced to protect itself from those thick of skull and ill of reputed.

I have never been about to bust a khuk that was not a defect right out of the gates, and that was only one out of 60ish.

 

[Svashtar]

Great responses guys. Remember that you aren't dealing with a completely hardened blade here, but a differentially hardened blade with a hard edge and soft spine. That's not weaker, but different than the other blades you describe.

The primary reason I would never use a Kobra to chop wood is that the blade is just too long and whippy and there isn't enough mass to do the job. There are just too many better HI products for the task. For vines and brush and light limbs, sure, and the thing is very fast, but why beat hell our of it on hard wood?

I know it's subjective, and if you're as literal as me that can be difficult, but try and separate the performance discussion in your head from the warranty decisions HI was forced to make.

I'm still trying to understand how some people can just toss centuries of real-world use in handle design and say it's not good enough. Obviously, instead of looking at the product, they are looking instead at the warranty caveats and reasoning backwards. Unavoidable I guess.

Good luck. :thumbup:

Norm

 

[jamaljahda]

I really was not talking about the warranty just the distinction in general. It made me wonder was it something of the nature of it being stick tang, pinned through the handle, handle being made of natural materials vs synthetics. As all of the lighter mentioned knives I listed above are full tang with synthetic handles. From my own personal experiences from my usages my three khukris will outlast me.. I was just wondering if it was something inherently weaker in the design that warranted the different designations. As far as I can see though I won have anything to worry about I can play without worry

 

[HARPERSGRACE]

No there is no inherent weakness in any of the designs, other than the obvious that a heavier thicker blade will hold up somewhat better for hard use than a lighter thinner blade, all common sence...the division was made for the purpose of the waranty...you can't really concider one with out the other...lets say someone takes a kobra which by it's very design is not for heavy chopping,( thin, light blade,etc.) and beats it to death and then desides to send it back, there needs to be a limit as to what can and can't be returned within reason. That being said I have two kobras and they are built like a truck, and would be able to do more than I would ever ask them to.... of course I use some common sence..

If you have any worries dont, all HI products are over built to the extreme by men who not only know what they are doing but but whose families have spend generations using these same weapons/tools on a daily basis.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Seems to me that the main reason isn't that they're not capable of doing heavier tasks and holding up just fine. It's that there are other Khuks in the HI lineup which will be far more effective. I mean, you can use a folding knife to baton through a log if you need to (although I'm unclear on when you'd ever need to do so). But an Ang Khola, ASTK, or any of the other heavier offerings will do the job MUCH better. Why not get the tool that will do the BEST job, not just do the job.

 

[Issun]

being stick tang, pinned through the handle, handle being made of natural materials vs synthetics.

Keep in mind that HI knives are full tang just as much as a K-Bar is
some have called this tang a "hidden tang"
the tang might not be visible but it is very strong

also, the wood and horn handles will stand up to whatever abuse that you throw at it, so long as you dont let them rot or bash against something hard enough to splinter. There are some advantages to synthetic, but dont let that get you to thinking that natural materials are completely useless, HI handles are very solidly made and arn't going to go anywhere

the steel in HI khukris will bend before breaking generally
although the thinner blades are not as well suited for heavy tasks, a sliceing specialist blade such as a sirupati WILL chop very very well, although an AK will do the same chopping task with less effort and less pain in the wrist resulting. The sirupati's edge is also going to be thinner, designed to slice, even though the back of the blade is still going to be over 1/4 inch thick... this results in a LOT of energy being imparted into the blade if it is used for chopping, so sloppy form COULD cause the edge to roll or bend

if you were to use the same amount of energy in swinging your "small" khukri as you do your wilderness knife that weighs half as much, you will end up doing a similar amount of work (or perhaps more) and there would be no risk of damage to the blade... its just really hard to resist swinging your blade much much faster...

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I really was not talking about the warranty just the distinction in general.

The real difference is in the warranty.

It made me wonder was it something of the nature of it being stick tang, pinned through the handle, handle being made of natural materials vs synthetics. As all of the lighter mentioned knives I listed above are full tang with synthetic handles.

All HI kukri (and I think all of their blades) are full tang. The tang runs completely through the handle and is peined on the butt end. The Chiruwa handles are full, exposed tang. If someone wants to dig it up, or if you do a search, you can find pictures of blades (Yangdu used to advertise them as "weekend specials" or some such), you'll see the hidden tang has more metal than some knives have in the blade. They are very strong.

The wood and horn are durable provided you take care of them. Keep them oiled, don't leave them exposed to the sun and rain for weeks on end, etc. All handle materials fail at some point. To be honest, I've destroyed more Kraton handles than anything, and have yet to destroy a wood or stacked leather handle, even though some of mine look like hell.

From my own personal experiences from my usages my three khukris will outlast me.. I was just wondering if it was something inherently weaker in the design that warranted the different designations. As far as I can see though I won have anything to worry about I can play without worry

No, like I said before, the warranty was reworded the way it is now because of people being stupid and/or dishonest. If you want to demolish cement structures use a sledge and wrecking bar, if you want to cut a steel pipe with your blade, hit yourself on the head with the pipe a dozen times and rethink it. If you want a new one, buy it, don't buy a used one and break it toi get a new one. Follow that advice, and I don't see how you can run afoul of the warranty.

If you want a "money where your mouth is" testimonial, I sold my big Busse knives, including two Battle Mistresses, because they fell flat in woods use compared to my HI kukri. The last straw was comparing them to the Sirupate and Tamang I bought -- the two lightest, "weakest" HI kukri I own, and both outchopped the BMs badly. If there's anything close to an indestructible knife, the Busse Battle Mistress is it, and I got rid of them in favor of HI products.

An HI kukri won't survive being shot with an AK-47 like Busses have, but they are farm and woods tools, as well as combat knives extraordinaire, and I really can't see how you could break them by hand performing the duties they were meant for.

 

[SilverFoxKnows]

I'm not worried about my hidden tang khuks. My first, and still favorite, is a hidden tang, wood handled 18"/ 28oz WWII. I've been chopping away with it for about 8 years (I think). It's middle of the road, size wise. Even my little 12"/ 13oz siru would probably do 100 years of honest work. Don't try to chop down a fully grown hardwood tree with a kobra and don't put it in a vice and hit it with a sledge and I doubt you'll ever need the warranty.

Frank

 

[Wolf_1989]

What I go by is the wider the blade, the better a chopper it is.

If I have a narrower khukri, it can still take on heavy chopping duties but I don't use it to deliver heavy blows. That sort of thing is best left to the Ang Kholas or M43's.

 

[Zixinus]

An HI kukri won't survive being shot with an AK-47 like Busses have,

Wait, someone seriously thinks that shooting a knife is any measure of durability?

WHAT?

Pardon me, but bos taurus fimus! No steel can survive undamaged by being shot by an AK-47 (or any other weapon in a similar caliber, or even something lower like the AK-74). Rifle cartridges can go trough steel and even if the bullet won't penetrate trough, you are looking at very serious deformation that likely will still ruin the knife.

 

[JayGoliath]

Rifle cartridges can go trough steel and even if the bullet won't penetrate trough, you are looking at very serious deformation that likely will still ruin the knife.

I was once perplexed by this until:

From Gossman's website: S7 blade shot with a 41 magnum at 10 yds.

This is going to open up another can of worms but according to the results of knifetest.com, if the AK was to replaced by CAK it would have been a totally different ball game.
Busee FFBM was broke into half and AK was just twisted badly cutting a thinner pipe. I was really impressed by the workmanships of HI.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Wait, someone seriously thinks that shooting a knife is any measure of durability?

WHAT?

Pardon me, but bos taurus fimus! No steel can survive undamaged by being shot by an AK-47 (or any other weapon in a similar caliber, or even something lower like the AK-74). Rifle cartridges can go trough steel and even if the bullet won't penetrate trough, you are looking at very serious deformation that likely will still ruin the knife.

I never said it was undamaged. However a member in the Busse forum did, in fact, shoot one of the smaller (6-8") Busses with his AK-47 from 10-15 yards. The first bullet made a BIG dimple in the blade, the second bullet went through.

In another case, a police officer was shot with a .40 S&W (from a fellow police officer), it hit the Busse he carried "commando style" on his shoulder, and the bullet did not poenetrate.

Nobody is calling these serious knife tests, and I mentioned them in the vein of "an HI probably won't stand up to extremely stupid acts, and it's not what they were meant for". However, people do stupid things like that and then want a new blade under warranty. Stupidity like that is why the warranty was clarified, not because a kukri will shatter if it hits a 3/4" branch instead of a 1/2" branch.

 

[Svashtar]

Great posts everyone. :thumbup:

Personally though I'm unhappy with my HI's: I soaked my AK in acid, then heated it up, pounded it straight and used it to replace the broken leaf spring on my F350! Darn thing bent almost a half inch out of line.

Must be poor quality heat treat! I'll be contacting HI for a relacement ASAP.

Seriously, funny how warranties work. Sears has a great warrantly on their Craftsman tools, and did for decades before Kobalt, or Husky or Harbor Freight. I was raised on Craftsman tools by my Dad. One time working the backroom at Chevron USA we didn't have a 17mm impact socket for a Mercedes so used a standard 12 pt. socket to get the lug nuts off. On the last nut the socket broke. Took it to Sears and they just replaced it no questions.

But a couple of years ago I was on a Sears tool forum and a guy was furious that Sears wouldn't honor their warranty. Seems he had a ton of Craftsman tools and his house burned down. All the tools got super hot, and their heat treat was ruined. He said Sears should replace the lot under their warranty. Sorry...!

Best,

Norm

 

[Cotherion]

In another case, a police officer was shot with a .40 S&W (from a fellow police officer), it hit the Busse he carried "commando style" on his shoulder, and the bullet did not poenetrate.

Force dissipate to the body. A yielding surface that will absorb force. Then is not surprising if bullet does not penetrate.

Compared to if knife is put in something unyielding like a vise, the force has less avenue to dissipate, then it is not surprising if bullet penetrates.

Just a thought.

 

[kronckew]

since this thread is veering a bit:

it reminds me of this:

[youtube]HO8Ot10hIiA[/youtube]

 

[chiral.grolim]

If you want a "money where your mouth is" testimonial, I sold my big Busse knives, including two Battle Mistresses, because they fell flat in woods use compared to my HI kukri. The last straw was comparing them to the Sirupate and Tamang I bought -- the two lightest, "weakest" HI kukri I own, and both outchopped the BMs badly. If there's anything close to an indestructible knife, the Busse Battle Mistress is it, and I got rid of them in favor of HI products.

That really IS a testimonial!!!
If you don't need INFI-durability/edge-holding and find a tool that performs better at the tasks you need it for... :thumbup:

This is going to open up another can of worms but according to the results of knifetest.com, if the AK was to replaced by CAK it would have been a totally different ball game.
Busee FFBM was broke into half and AK was just twisted badly cutting a thinner pipe. I was really impressed by the workmanships of HI.

Those videos sold me on HI products. Noss admits throughout the videos that his main difficulties with the 12" AK is that he isn't used to the blade-shape (as evident in his technique), but he is amazed at the performance (durability-wise) of even such a little HI product esp. at the price and compared to other modern "hard-use" blades. Oh, he criticizes the handle, but mentions in his forum that the larger HI CAK he bought for personal use is plenty to his liking. I think everyone was surprised at how easily the blade bent and set (being 1/2" thick) in the videos... *shrug* But in terms of "destruction" (total blade failure), HI ranks with the Bussekin! Compare performance and durability to destruction between similar weight FFBM and CAK ... it'll take a long time and a lot of work, and no promises that the CAK won't finish on top :thumbup:

(Not that you should treat one of these hand-made beauties like a production Busse)